Raid Order

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Re: Raid Order

Postby inthedrops » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:07 am

exiledknight wrote:We solo tank Magmaw and I have not noticed the mangle debuff at all in 25 man. Other than when I am picked up in his mouth damage remains fairly low and steady, I will have to take a look at logs now tonight to see if what was suggested earlier in the thread holds true.


A few posts back I mentioned that the debuff is only on 10 man. I did the same thing as you :)
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Chunes » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:17 pm

Responding to the OP:

Our progression path has looked like this so far:

Baradin Hold boss -> Halfus -> Val/Ther -> Magmaw -> Omnitron -> Maloriak attempts.

In terms of difficulty for an average 340ish iLvl raid of average composition (2 tanks, 3 heals, 2 ranged, 3 melee) I would rank the bosses we've done so far like this:

BH boss <<< Magmaw/Omnitron < Val/Ther and Halfus << Maloriak



The pvp boss is just a DPS and tard check. If you can't down him you may have issues with all the following bosses. Magmaw will clutch on your healers ability to keep the tank up (we did it with 1 tank @ 349 ilvl equipped), omnitron is simply a technical execution fight, Val/Ther is an execution fight with very little room for error, Halfus is another healer/tank check and Maloriak is a semi-technical DPS race that will test either your tank/healers gear or your tank's kiting skills as well as your raid's coordination and DPS.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Amirya » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:41 pm

So it's agreed to start with Baradin Hold for first time?

My guild is moving incredibly slow at levelling due to RL issues and holidays all around. I'm looking at end of January for our first raid, and want to make sure we start with easy.

(Frustrating part is currently, we've only 1 healer at 85. 1 is at 84, and next closest is my alt at 4 bars from 83)
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Belloc » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:35 pm

Amirya wrote:So it's agreed to start with Baradin Hold for first time?

My guild is moving incredibly slow at levelling due to RL issues and holidays all around. I'm looking at end of January for our first raid, and want to make sure we start with easy.

(Frustrating part is currently, we've only 1 healer at 85. 1 is at 84, and next closest is my alt at 4 bars from 83)

Baradin Hold comes nowhere near comparing to the difficulty of any other current raid boss. It's a good place to start because if you can't kill that boss, you won't be able to handle any other boss.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Chunes » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:59 pm

What Belloc said. The pvp boss is basically a really low DPS check. It's a good benchmark to see if they are up to the task.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Amirya » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:23 pm

Fair enough, it gives me somewhere to restart the BC raid leading.

Thanks :D
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Xkonvikt » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:37 am

Belloc wrote:
Metherlance wrote:
Belloc wrote:Magmaw requires a tank switch, as a tank will get a large debuff applied to them after mangle (I think). That's probably what your healers deemed "unhealable".


Dunno which one you are talking about but 10m (1 tank 3 healers) is easily doable with one tank. The debuff, by the way, is -50% armor.


Yes, it's doable with 1 tank. That doesn't make it optimal or safe. Generally, when you're fighting new content, you do it the way that it's supposed to be done. A 50% armor debuff means that you need to tank swap. Suggesting otherwise is not helpful.


Ok, call me a new or whatever but, it has been a very long time since I have tanked anything (Vanilla). I don't remember how to tank swap how do you do it effectively?
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Belloc » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:43 am

Xkonvikt wrote:
Belloc wrote:
Metherlance wrote:Dunno which one you are talking about but 10m (1 tank 3 healers) is easily doable with one tank. The debuff, by the way, is -50% armor.


Yes, it's doable with 1 tank. That doesn't make it optimal or safe. Generally, when you're fighting new content, you do it the way that it's supposed to be done. A 50% armor debuff means that you need to tank swap. Suggesting otherwise is not helpful.


Ok, call me a new or whatever but, it has been a very long time since I have tanked anything (Vanilla). I don't remember how to tank swap how do you do it effectively?

The person not currently tanking taunts the boss.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Xkonvikt » Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:35 pm

Belloc wrote:The person not currently tanking taunts the boss.


I understand that part but, my question is how do you hold aggro after the initial taunt mechanic wears off if the previous tank was constantly hold high aggro for obvious reasons? Just trying to figure the optimal way to generate aggro ABOVE that of the current dps.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Arianne » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:08 pm

Most of the time you just have to beat the other tank. This mostly relies on the other tank not hitting him with a huge threat move immediately after you taunt off them. As a paladin, I know when I'm going to have to taunt, so I build up 3 HoPo and sit on it so that I can ShoR immediately afterwards. If I really need to, then I'll also use DP to get another 3 HoPo for another ShoR or I'll use AW.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Belloc » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:13 pm

Xkonvikt wrote:
Belloc wrote:The person not currently tanking taunts the boss.


I understand that part but, my question is how do you hold aggro after the initial taunt mechanic wears off if the previous tank was constantly hold high aggro for obvious reasons? Just trying to figure the optimal way to generate aggro ABOVE that of the current dps.

When you taunt, you gain the threat level of the person that had aggro. If that was the other tank, you're already on top. At that point you just tank the mob and generate your usual threat.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Xkonvikt » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:09 pm

Belloc wrote:
Xkonvikt wrote:
Belloc wrote:The person not currently tanking taunts the boss.


I understand that part but, my question is how do you hold aggro after the initial taunt mechanic wears off if the previous tank was constantly hold high aggro for obvious reasons? Just trying to figure the optimal way to generate aggro ABOVE that of the current dps.

When you taunt, you gain the threat level of the person that had aggro. If that was the other tank, you're already on top. At that point you just tank the mob and generate your usual threat.


Is that concurrent with RD and HoR?
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Chicken » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:56 am

Yes, both RD and HoR give you the threat of the mobs current target. The one thing to note is that due to how Vengeance works, the other tank might want to hold back slightly after you taunt as he'll be hitting much harder than you for a while, which can lead to aggro loss.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Xkonvikt » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:47 pm

Chicken wrote:Yes, both RD and HoR give you the threat of the mobs current target. The one thing to note is that due to how Vengeance works, the other tank might want to hold back slightly after you taunt as he'll be hitting much harder than you for a while, which can lead to aggro loss.



Yea, thanks tanked BH last night had to hold back after taunt so to not pull aggro quickly again.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby mclem » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:57 am

Just to dredge this back up, because we're on Cho'gall now and starting to think about heroics: Would people say that the heroic kill order is similar, or are there some bosses that seem a bit easier than others in heroic form? On top of that, are there any heroic bosses which actually seem easier than normal endbosses?

Wondering if it's smarter to push, say, Halfus Heroic over Nef, for instance.

Edit: And now I see the *other* thread. Apologies!
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