[10man] Wyrmbreaker

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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Chunes » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:44 am

I was under the impression that the drake combo was always whelps + Drake 1 + Drake 2. I'm seeing some people saying they had Drake 1 + Drake 2 + Drake 3 combos.

We have been stuck with the MS debuffing dragon (slate iirc) both weeks and while we thought at first that he was probably the worst drake to have, I'm starting to like him more than the others because through taunt juggling, it can be very easily managed.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Astronomic » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:38 am

Bears will do and have always done more raw damage than other tanks. It prolly hasta do with the fact that while all your gear has strength on it ours has agility so we have a huge amount of crit too, and the fact that mangle hits for crazy. Your bear prolly also used berserk when he had halfus + a dragon on him so he was mangle spamming on 2 targets for 20seconds. Also when drakes are dead and its just halfus, idk if he did this, but while you have halfus on you he can go cat :?

Also i got hit capped and am close to expertise capped because the more hits I land means the more crits I land. More crits means savage defense (basically block for bears) is up more often. And you'll just do more damage in general helping toward those enrage timers.
Threats not really too much of a problem but it sucks charging in and having that initial mangle miss while some dps with a happy trigger finger gets agro.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Arianne » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:19 pm

I've generally thought that it was easier to do Drake+Whelps then the 2nd drake (if you need to) rather than do Drake+Drake then whelps. Bringing the whelps out earlier really helps with raid damage during the crucial first few minutes. We tend to not free the Slate dragon because the 12s stun isn't worth the amount of time spent killing him.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Strendarr » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:13 am

We finally killed this dude tonight and yeah I get why people were saying it's easy. My guild killed al'akir before this guy. We kept trying to start the fight with multiple drakes active rather than 1 at a time. Once we did one at a time, it was no problem. :/ :oops:
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:40 am

Anyone have any suggestions or comments on Heroic 10-man? We put some attempts into it tonight and it seems incredibly RNG. Things started working out better when we added a third tank, but that is not a solution that anyone should be satisfied with.

For those that aren't aware, the heroic version has all of the drakes and whelps as available for activation. Consequently, all of the nasty abilities are also present.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Doxa » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:07 am

Ezharon wrote:
melisandyr wrote:We had the

Slate Dragon
Nether Scion
Storm Rider

...


We had this last night as well. On our best attempt (after a few different combinations of strats) we got Storm to 10% or so. Tank deaths were the number one cause of wipes. Ironically, the MS debuff, while being an issue, wasn't the biggest problem (we tank swapped at 5 stacks and then after the debuff fell off). Most of the trouble, I think, came from tanking Storm and the whelps at the same time. If I wasn't using a CD while tanking the whelps and eitiher Storm/Wyrmbreak at the same time I was eating a ton of damage and eventually died. Seems like this combo is all about getting the first drake down as fast as possible.

The whelps were hitting for between 2-8k each if I didn't avoid. Storm was hitting me for around 25-30k. Wyrmbreaker was hitting for a bit less.

I think the way to go on this combo is to release the whelps and Storm at the same time and then Heroism through it as quickly as possible while utilizing raid CDs and tank CDs (and tank swaps at 5 stacks).

Any other thoughts?
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:09 am

Well, I think Meleree was the first to state it. But yeah, I'm a big fan of the "open all three at once and blow tank cooldowns" strat. Ever since our first kill we've been doing this and it just gets easier each week with a bit of extra gear and healers knowing what to expect.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Arianne » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:36 pm

Really depends on whether you're 2 or 3 healing it in 10s IMO. We were 2 healing and if we popped everything at the beginning they would get overwhelmed even with chain CDs. We went to doing 1 drake + whelps and it went alright.

For heroics I'd say that it's important to have nether and whelps out at the beginning and then do storm rider after those were down. Whether you did time warden would depend on if you try to get people to actually dodge the fireballs. I wouldn't think you'd do slate at all unless there's a debuff on heroic when halfus gets stunned (which I vaguely remember there might be?).
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:47 pm

Not bringing out the storm rider immediately means that you're going to miss the interrupts on Shadow Nova and wipe, unfortunately. I think that heroic 10-man is just poorly designed (in that you pretty much need 3 tanks).
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Jedah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:04 am

Just got this tonight (our first foray into raiding) and we had:

Slate Drake
Storm Rider
Whelps


Lots of wipes later, we figured out that activating the storm rider + whelps immediately on the pull, then AOEing everything down with all cooldowns and using HoP on the Halfus tank after about 10 stacks, and ultimately ignoring the slate dragon all together.

as soon as we tried that strat we got it the first try

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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby kakashi » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:51 am

Belloc wrote:Not bringing out the storm rider immediately means that you're going to miss the interrupts on Shadow Nova and wipe, unfortunately. I think that heroic 10-man is just poorly designed (in that you pretty much need 3 tanks).


I agree. This fight is incredibly easy in 25 man compared with 10, due to the fact if you don't have a few key classes and specs in 10 man you can forget about doing it. In 25 it's a lot more flexible which makes it incredibly easy.

Anyways more about the fight. You do need three well geared tanks because the damage is insane. I would also go as far as saying Disciple Priests are extremely OP here even after the hotfix. That's all I can give away atm.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Ulrik » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:13 am

My group has started this and has found the most irritating thing is the random nature of the Stone Drake's cast slowing on the boss. Sometimes it slows his cast and sometimes it doesn't. Have to raid spam 5+ interrupts for the first, shaman takes over after that.

Chain CDs for the first 30. Bubble off MS at ~8-9 stacks. Regain up to ~4, switch mobs. Nuke whelps. Don't stack. Pray the proto doesn't spam you with the fireball machine gun or you just die. No LoH cause of bubbling.

Oh ya. Highly recommend 3 tanks for 10 man. Way to go Bliz.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby d503 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:06 am

Ulrik wrote:My group has started this and has found the most irritating thing is the random nature of the Stone Drake's cast slowing on the boss. Sometimes it slows his cast and sometimes it doesn't. Have to raid spam 5+ interrupts for the first, shaman takes over after that.

Chain CDs for the first 30. Bubble off MS at ~8-9 stacks. Regain up to ~4, switch mobs. Nuke whelps. Don't stack. Pray the proto doesn't spam you with the fireball machine gun or you just die. No LoH cause of bubbling.

Oh ya. Highly recommend 3 tanks for 10 man. Way to go Bliz.


Your post is a little disjointed and I can't really understand what the full breadth of the problem was here.

What was your drake comp?
What was your group comp?

Would love to help!
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Astronomic » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:25 am

Well based on the abilities mentioned im guessing you have:

-stone drake
-storm rider
-time warden

You should pull the stormrider and time warden at the begging to make the shadow nova interuptable and to drastically reduce raid damage from the fire proto. Have a dedicated interupter(s) on halfus while raid nukes the storm rider as fast as possible.
Then kill time warden then stone drake. Just make sure you have some mechanic for getting out of the 3rd stun(i.e. blink) to interupt the shadow nova. Once the stormrider is down the fight basically becomes a stay-out-of-the-fire fight with tank swaps and interupts.

Also the stormrider is what slows down the cast speed of shadow nova. The stone drake just randomly stuns him for 12 seconds.
You likely wont interupt the very first cast because it will occur before the stormrider is bound to his will. The +casting time doesnt occur till about 8seconds into the fight.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Ulrik » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 pm

Sorry I didn't see a separate thread for the heroic encounter so I vented here.

The problem and cause for most wipes is, and has always been even on normal, that the Storm Rider randomly does and does not slow the first shadow nova cast. We're having to use the shaman, dk, mage, and myself count to about 6 on the pull then just spam interrupts hoping we catch the first. Shaman handles the rest fine.

For hard mode we're grabbing boss, Storm, Nether (attack speed), and whelps all at the start. The whelp tank is the one doubling up on Storm. After whelps and Nether Scion our plan is to then release Time (fireball dodge), kill Storm 3rd, and perhaps leave Time offtanked after that. During this time we're trading mobs and abusing the hell out of bubble while all tanks are chaining all CDs through the first +/- 30 sec.

It's fine that hard mode is hard but I think it's absurd that the best strat for 10 is to 3 tank using only paladins to remove MS and stack Divine Guardians.

Pray you don't get focused by the fireball spam before it's avoidable cause you won't have CDs and heals can't get you up. Once your group lives for longer then 60 sec you're starting to do well.
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