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[10man] Wyrmbreaker

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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:07 pm

theckhd wrote:
Belloc wrote:If it weren't for the Furious Roars followed by the Shadow Nova, the fight would be a total joke after the adds were finished. The roars --> nova is simple enough to deal with, especially if you have a mage (as you have figured out). Other working strategies include using Hand of Protection on an interrupter or bubbling and interrupting.

Avoiding the stun is the point of that combination... otherwise the fight would be over as soon as the drakes were dead. That's good encounter design, if you ask me :P


It would be good encounter design if there were more ways of countering it. If mages and paladins are the only way to accomplish this, then 10-man groups without either will be at a serious disadvantage.

Does HoP actually work, by the way? I thought it prevented the player from attacking or using offensive abilities.
HoP doesn't prevent spell casts. Alternatively, a player could simply click the buff off or have a /cancelaura macro prepared. Finally, a raid cooldown is sufficient to make it more survivable (as it is completely survivable uninterrupted, as well).
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby melisandyr » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:16 pm

We had the

Slate Dragon
Nether Scion
Storm Rider

tonight. A truly horrible combination. Whichever way around we did the adds we had real trouble healing through the other abilities (two holy paladins and a disc priest) and when we did manage to get a dragon down, at least one of the healers would be totally without mana. We tried with one drake active and with two drakes active, and it didn't seem to make a difference to getting a handle on the fight.

I still walked away really enjoying this encounter, although after defeating the Omnitron Council and having to forgo the Halfus tank spot because I don't have a reliable interrupt on a short cooldown, I really do have a quibble with our lack of reliable interrupt (i'm not even sure I'd care if it was off the GCD at this point).

Really nicely designed fight however, and a real gear check / welcome to Cataclysm raiding encounter.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Sagedin » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:32 pm

Killed him Tuesday, really interesting fight and really shows the importance of individual performance. Went in with a less then optimal group seeing as a lot of people were very fresh to 85. We therefore had a mainspec dps warrior tanking and our enhancement shaman was our backup 3rd healer. Luckily we took him along, seeing as we started out just after the stealth fix to holy paladins (playing one myself now as mainspec) and found out about it on the trash towards the boss. This meant we had some delay as without any notification I first had to find out if it was a personal issue, a serverside bug or a hotfix. Seeing the forums explode, meant it either was a bug or a hotfix so nothing I could do about it. Next up our main tanks modem died so our feral cat was promoted to offtank. Still everything can happen so we decided to give it some tries.

We also had one of the more difficult combinations I suppose:

- Storm Rider
- Time Warden
- Nether Scion

We knew we had to free the Storm Rider first as the Shadow Nova damage + knockback is by far the most dangerous one of the 5 drakes. First we tried just releasing 1 drake, but the fireball AoE was just to big. We also tried freeing both the Storm Rider and the Time Warden and just burn down the Storm Rider and then focus on the boss. All went well until he reached 50% and the combination of his Furious Roars followed by the Shadow Nova and the drake that was still up was just too much.

So the way we killed him was on the pull the Storm Rider and Time Warden were freed and our best geared tank took Halfus and Time Warden, while the other tank took Storm Rider. We rotated cooldowns on the tank and burned down the Storm Rider after which the other tank taunted off the second drake. We killed the second drake and ignored the Nether Scion completely and focused on Halfus. For the interrupt after the Furious Roar we had our two rogues use a Free Action Potion for the consecutive roars and heal through the Shadow Nova that wasn't interrupted. Never actually thought of using Hand of Protection or running in myself with Divine Shield. In the end we still got him down though. Also a World of Logs file for those interested: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xxb8iz4cnaabst8v/

Still think the difficulty of the fight is largely dependant on whether or not the Storm Rider is involved, which is a bit of a shame.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Ezharon » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:11 pm

melisandyr wrote:We had the

Slate Dragon
Nether Scion
Storm Rider

tonight. A truly horrible combination. Whichever way around we did the adds we had real trouble healing through the other abilities (two holy paladins and a disc priest) and when we did manage to get a dragon down, at least one of the healers would be totally without mana. We tried with one drake active and with two drakes active, and it didn't seem to make a difference to getting a handle on the fight.


We had this combination too this week. We found that releasing Storm and Scion when pulling work the best for us. My co-tank (warrior) activate the storm drake while I was pulling the boss and our hunt activate the scion and redirect it to me. We tank each 3 in the center. As soon as I was at 7-8 stacks of debuff my co-tank taunt the boss and I taunted back when my debuff was off. Our rogue was interrupting the shadow nova.

Best attempt we manage to kill the storm then the scion then put the boss at less than 60% but our healers were oom and we wipe a few times because of this with 2 to 3 minutes left on the enrage timer.

My co-ank and I are around 346 medium ilvl, but our dps and heals are still a little under (between 330 and 340).

We've down Argaloth twice but each time at the last sec. So I think we're still lacking a bit of 346 stuff. We'll come back at the end of the week after a few more heroics see if we can make progress.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Strendarr » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:24 am

I'm guessing that most of the people who have posted that scoff at the difficulty did the fight on 25 man? Seems the tuning is different between the modes. 10 man seems extremely tough.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:33 am

Strendarr wrote:I'm guessing that most of the people who have posted that scoff at the difficulty did the fight on 25 man? Seems the tuning is different between the modes. 10 man seems extremely tough.

10 man difficulty depends on which drakes you get and if you know when to bring them out. Every combination has a way of making the fight much easier. For the record, we one-shot it this week with a different combination than we had last week (and we would've one-shot that one, too).

It's all about bringing out the drakes at the proper time and in the proper order (usually two of them at the same time).
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Strendarr » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:12 pm

Perhaps our feral tank is too squishy then. Unfortunately he has to be on the boss because him and the rogue are our only raiders with short CD interrupts. The only other option would be that I tank the boss and every drake :p

my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/g ... m/advanced

his armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/g ... e/advanced

Doesn't seem terribly different, yet on our damage parses his damage taken tends to be as much as 6-10% higher overall on fights where we tank the same amount of mobs (Omnitron). Perhaps its the part where hes got 60 stam in every blue socket? I've been reforging everything and gemming everything I can for mastery.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:52 pm

His gear seems sufficient, but you're probably onto something with his gemming. Stamina is great... but avoiding/reducing is great, too.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby oldboyz » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:34 am

misunerstand some stuff here
look like there is info for 25raid while it is a post for the 10 version ?

question : on the 5 drakes, only 3 can be free in the 10 version, are they different each week ? (or time drag and whelp only available in the 25version?)


we just made some try, best is first drake down to 30% (casual raid still in heroic/craft gearing mode)
sometime tanks can't take and die first, sometime others die first. at this stage, healers can't check if they have enought mana or not xD

bigger concern is the mortal strike on MT1, it stacks quite fast



PS.
by the way, trash here seems generous!! (2epics the first day, and we came back with the 2second raid just for them : again 2 loot!)
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Ismet » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:04 pm

Same here ... we had a very hard time with the Healingdebuff.
It looks like masterystacking is the worst one could do for that fight - everytime i used my on-use parrytrinket it seemed i got fewer debuffs in the same time. So after 1 Hour of wiping we had both Pallytanks reforge for more avoidance but still everytime MS stacked up to 15-16 till we could rotate.

Now farming an avoidset till wednesday -.-
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Kaory » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:50 am

First week Storm, Time and Nether drakes were up. We killed Storm, then Time, then Boss (skipping Nether at all).
Second week Storm, Nether and Sludge drakes. That was really difficult. Those -heal debuffs are crazy.
We killed Storm first (interrupting novas). WarTank was on boss, running from him while Storm drake was alive. Boss was running from me to wartank and back (taunts, bop). After Storm - Nether -> Sludge -> Boss
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby claisa » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:29 am

With average 333 gear you should be getting about 8 (9 at worse) stacks by the time the other tanks have fallen off. This is of course if you have released the nether scion at the very beginning of the fight if you have him otherwise the haste buff stacked with the mortal strike effect will harsh you up super bad.

We had the nether scion, slate dragon, storm dragon.

Only got the boss to 50% like that, but now we got our shit together, got people that can hit their inturrupt button. Almost want the same combo for our revisit on wednesday.

And the 50% attempt only went bad due to a missed interrupt and a tank being knocked of the edge. At least it is all learning. Tanks no longer that close to the edge.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Dravan » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:15 am

I feel we have had some bad luck with this fight. First week we had Storm, Timewarden and Netherscion. Really didn't have much idea about the fight but we released Storm and killed, then Time and killed and then just burned the boss down. Killed him with dots when everyone was dead at enrage. With this combo it seems to be all about the interupts and people avoiding the fire barrage once you release the time warden (we popped raid walls and aura mastery while burning down the storm.)

Second week we had the Stone, Storm and Netherscion. This is the worst combination in my opinion (as apparently the whelps easy mode this fight.) The way we handled it was to have myself tanking Storm at the start and a Feral druid taking the boss and the Nether. The reason we took both was the Netherscion removes his frenzy buff (100% attack speed) which means the boss hits like a girl and leave only a slow stacking healing debuff to contend with, and the Storm Rider makes the shadow nova interuptable (which as you know is essential). With an enhancement shammy taking all the interupts (yes they can take every single one) we tanked them all in the middle and simply rotated the boss between 2 tanks and using a defensive CD on whoever had the two mobs. Even without hero the Storm Rider should go down fairly fast. Once he was down it is a case of swapping mobs every 8 stacks or so.

Once both drakes are dead you just hero nuke the boss. Because the shammy was on him and we tanked them all together the boss was at 70% by this point. Once we hit 50% we had paladins taking turns to bubble and interupt the shadow nova after shout. We still missed a couple but it does work fairly well and we killed well within the timer.

In 25 man we had a few goes with this combo without much luck. However I think a similar tactic to the above should work, though you will need to release the Stone drake and offtank him for the duration of the encounter once the first 2 die I believe.

One final tip for the boss is to have the tanks standing appart just for the switch giving you a few seconds extra of the debuff ticking off. Every little helps!
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Ezharon » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:01 pm

Finally down him yesterday evening. Releasing storm and scion when pulling, tanking the boss and the 2 drakes in the center (1 drake for each tank and swapping boss at 6-8 stack of debuff). Our rogue and arms warrior were interrupting shadow nova.

We had a few wipes around 15% when releasing the slate drake after the storm and scion were dead because our healers went oom. Then we found that not releasing the 3rd drake was finally best for us as there were less heals to do on the tanks.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Telsamir » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:49 am

Hello All,

We had our first tries on Halfus last night. Drakes we had:

Time drake
Slate Drake
Whelps

We were trying different tactics but one which most suited us was to free slate and time right after the pull - tanks switching the Boss and dps burning drakes one by one. Ignoring whelp cage till the last 30 seconds.

From my perspective the most crucial part of this combination is initial 60 seconds when your DPS need to burn one drake ASAP. With stacking healing debuff and 2 drakes up ( plus fire breath from proto behemoth ) this was really challenging for our healing team - the smart rotating of defensive cooldowns was quite important in this setup. In our best attempt we brought halfus down to 8% and then hit enrage timer :( ( we also freed whelps 30 second before enrage - just to see if we can squeeze some dps from that - but during stun phase that got me killed and we hit enrage anyway )

I have to admit that some members of our dps team are still bit undegeared ( few 325 and 333 in some slots ) so, it should be definitely doable when they got better gear.

But I have question related to my gear and stats. I noticed that 2nd tank ( feral druid ) was a waaaaaaaay ahead of me dps-wise :( In the end I was somewhere on 9k, and bear was like 14,5k - thats quite a difference.

I dont know if I should change something for this fight e.g. gear for threat, use threat talents ( since enrage timer is quite tight, every dps will help ) Currently, I am gearing for mitigation / avoidance - as I suppose every progressing tank should be doing :) prefering mastery, then dodge / parry / sta and hit / expertise are on the bottom of my list. I think my hit is about 4% and expertise 15 ( with seal of truth glyph ) Also, during the fight I prefer to WoG myself to help healers a bit ( yes, I have talented Eternal Glory ) which I could easily switch to SotR and increasy my dps output.

So, is it really worth it or should I mainly focus on survability and keep the responsibility for killing boss merely for our DPS team ? :)

Also, is this huge different in dps output between druid and pala normal ( I am pretty sure, I know priorities of my abbilities quite well ) or am I missing something ?

Every response is much appreciated and sorry about bad English.
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