10-man raid makeup @ 85

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10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby knaughty » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:08 pm

I'm building my 10-man raiding roster this weekend.

Anyone on beta with raiding experience - is it looking like 10-man content is going to be mostly 2-healer or 3-healer?

I'd expect whatever the "mostly" answer, sometimes you'll want the person in the "3rd healer" slot to DPS - I'm just trying to work out if I want that 3rd "heal" person to be healing or DPS personal preference. I have some shadow priests who will heal if you push them, or I have a holy paladin who has never played ret. That said, my resto druid is an excellent boomkin, so if I need to drop to two heals I do have an option, but druid wants to mostly heal.

I'm leaning towards taking three main-spec healers at this point - druid/priest/paladin.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby d503 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:22 pm

Make sure you cover a bloodlust mechanic (mage, BM hunter, dps shaman), if you're not going to have a Resto Shaman.

I think the "switch-hitter" role needs to be an exceptional player who excels at both specs to ensure that the group doesn't suffer when going down to two healers...that's difficult to fill when you consider why people play the game (as in, if you play to dps, you're probably better at that than healing, and vice versa).

I'm struggling with the same things you are here, so I'll be watching this one!
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby Minarva » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:44 pm

I would say from our experience 3 healers seems a solid choice, although you must take into consideration that we did not use a druid tank (which until this patch was grossly overpowered and apparently damage intake was balanced around them). Assuming that damage intake on tanks is going to go down (because we were getting killed damn fast) in the light of the druid changes, I would imagine 2 might be more viable. Even for now most fights 2 genuinely skilled healers should be enough, but there is a lack of real incentive to bring 1 extra dps so I think playing it safe with 3 is better.

One last thing to remember is that its going to be harder to gear up 2 specs to a raiding level with the changes - heroic gear is pretty much necessary for the raids, so grinding out a double set will be more difficult.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby Neptuno » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:55 pm

any estimates on the "best" healer class who's optimal spirit regen level is right around hit cap or are they all going to be way over anyway without a dps piece or two?
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:55 pm

Neptuno wrote:any estimates on the "best" healer class who's optimal spirit regen level is right around hit cap or are they all going to be way over anyway without a dps piece or two?


they are all going to be way over because there is no "optimal" spirit regen level. more stats = better.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby Ryyu » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:27 am

What what i understand there planning to Buff bosses to there live levels next beta push, so 3 healers might be a good precaution. Just make sure one can DPS if needs be.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby knaughty » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:08 am

Minarva wrote:One last thing to remember is that its going to be harder to gear up 2 specs to a raiding level with the changes - heroic gear is pretty much necessary for the raids, so grinding out a double set will be more difficult.

The switch hitters I'm looking at are resto/balance and shadow/(disc or holy).

Gear between those specs is close to identical? Especially for the Boomkin off-set?

The Druid is pretty pro - he played both specs with us for progression kills.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby knaughty » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:14 am

d503 wrote:Make sure you cover a bloodlust mechanic (mage, BM hunter, dps shaman), if you're not going to have a Resto Shaman.

I think the "switch-hitter" role needs to be an exceptional player who excels at both specs to ensure that the group doesn't suffer when going down to two healers...that's difficult to fill when you consider why people play the game (as in, if you play to dps, you're probably better at that than healing, and vice versa).

I have an ele-shaman lined up for lust, and a hunter as backup. Is BM competitive?

The hunter is staggeringly good. He's done World top-20 damage despite the fact he doesn't have LKH weapon and we don't feed him tricks (3.3). I'd prefer to have him play highest dps spec, but if BM is close that wool work to cover buffs.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby Meloree » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:57 am

If I was planning to raid 10s competitively, I'd want a roster of 13-15 people, and I'd want all of them to be able to play their offspecs effectively. Flexibility will be the name of the game in progression raiding.

To start with, I'd want one of each healer, and ALL OF THEM should be able to DPS if needed. Next, I'd going to want one of each tanking class - two of them are going to be mainspec DPS, but make sure they're around for when Blizzard has a fight that's broken for <class X>. Fill in the remaining 5-7 spots with a varied composition of DPS. Try to balance loot needs as much as possible (don't get 7 warlocks, no matter how powerful they are) to make sure the gear is utilized when it drops.

Either way, if you want to be at all competitive, your roster won't be only 10 people, in the same way that a 25 man raiding roster is never just 25 people.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby xstratax » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:13 am

Thats fine for a more solid, professional guild like yours Meloree, but many of us dont have more than 1enough capable raiders in a progression push. For us its much more important to have a set and capable comp thats ready to go and get things done. That usually means one Heal and one Tank than are both capable at a DPS offspec (or Tank with a Heal offspec if they ever do another Val fight) should we only need one tank or 2 heals.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby Meloree » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:00 am

xstratax wrote:Thats fine for a more solid, professional guild like yours Meloree


Or Knaughty's. He was the OP here, and I'm sure he's looking to make a competitive progression oriented 10s group.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby Sabindeus » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:34 am

knaughty wrote:The hunter is staggeringly good. He's done World top-20 damage despite the fact he doesn't have LKH weapon and we don't feed him tricks (3.3). I'd prefer to have him play highest dps spec, but if BM is close that wool work to cover buffs.


To be fair, BM WAS completely overpoweringly high DPS until they nerfed it. I don't know how it fares now, but I'd bet it's still competitive given how much better it was than everything else previously.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby d503 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:43 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
knaughty wrote:The hunter is staggeringly good. He's done World top-20 damage despite the fact he doesn't have LKH weapon and we don't feed him tricks (3.3). I'd prefer to have him play highest dps spec, but if BM is close that wool work to cover buffs.


To be fair, BM WAS completely overpoweringly high DPS until they nerfed it. I don't know how it fares now, but I'd bet it's still competitive given how much better it was than everything else previously.


It's a bit weak at 80 because of lack of Cobra Shot, but I think it's competitive at 85.

EJ wrote:Q) Which spec does the most dps?
A) Currently there is not a clear "best" spec. Reports show all 3 specs doing well but as people have more time to test and theorycraft a clear winner may emerge. Currently there is an MM thread but no updated threads for the other specs as yet.


So I think it'd be a case of the player making up the difference, and perhaps the spec is only a difference of a few hundred dps north or south...at least, I hope so!
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby Chicken » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:58 pm

I'd expect on a raid DPS basis that it'd definitely be the best spec if you need an exotic pet for a buff though, even if it had a few hundred less personal DPS.
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Re: 10-man raid makeup @ 85

Postby knaughty » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:59 pm

Meloree wrote:
xstratax wrote:Thats fine for a more solid, professional guild like yours Meloree


Or Knaughty's. He was the OP here, and I'm sure he's looking to make a competitive progression oriented 10s group.

Sadly, I'm not planning to raid competitively in my 10-man. Seriously - yes, but "competitive" raiding will take more time than I can manage.

I should have explained: My 10-man team is the "Geriatrics" - we're the semi-retired people from my hard-core guild that can no longer maintain a full-time raiding schedule - people who have graduated, moved back to the US and our raid times now start at 3-4 AM, or people with babies (second one, in my case).

We're going to raid as seriously as we can, but we're only raiding one night a week, for about four hours. The 11 people on the team are generally pretty good - a few are seriously excellent (not me). We'll see how far we can get in 4 hours.
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