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Block-capping, unfortunate future.

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Chicken » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:08 pm

Korola wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:Where can I reforge for 10gs? Some of my gear was reforged for more than that.



The cost for reforging is the vendor price of the item


Taken from here
Or 10g for items that have no vendor price like tier pieces and badge gear.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Gaffer » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:13 pm

Sabindeus wrote:We don't want more numerical stratification on gear like defense cap and crushing blow removal. That's just not good for anyone involved.


Honestly, it's this design goal that has my seriously questioning whether or not I'll be purchasing Cataclysm. Without these item stat goals, there's literally no thought process that occurs for gearing. "Oh, the item level on these gloves is 1 higher than my old gloves. REPLACE." Although to be fair, at this point in the game you can pretty much wear whatever piece of gear looks better and still clear new content.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Malthrax » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:14 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Where can I reforge for 10gs? Some of my gear was reforged for more than that.


All reforging actions cost 10g... for sufficiently large values of 10.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:18 pm

Gaffer wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:We don't want more numerical stratification on gear like defense cap and crushing blow removal. That's just not good for anyone involved.


Honestly, it's this design goal that has my seriously questioning whether or not I'll be purchasing Cataclysm. Without these item stat goals, there's literally no thought process that occurs for gearing. "Oh, the item level on these gloves is 1 higher than my old gloves. REPLACE."


don't worry you can still dance around the hit/exp caps.

Although to be fair, at this point in the game you can pretty much wear whatever piece of gear looks better and still clear new content.


To be honest I actually really MISS doing exactly that back in Vanilla 40 mans... Judgement + Avenger pants + Neretzek ftw
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Gaffer » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:35 pm

Sabindeus wrote:don't worry you can still dance around the hit/exp caps.


Which is literally the only though process that has to occur at this point. It's getting to the point where all that is left is executing game play and, frankly, if that's all I was looking for in an MMO, I'd be playing an FPS instead.

Sabindeus wrote:To be honest I actually really MISS doing exactly that back in Vanilla 40 mans... Judgement + Avenger pants + Neretzek ftw


You and I look for significantly different things from our games :)
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:57 pm

Gaffer wrote:Which is literally the only though process that has to occur at this point. It's getting to the point where all that is left is executing game play and, frankly, if that's all I was looking for in an MMO, I'd be playing an FPS instead.

You and I look for significantly different things from our games :)


Definitely. While you seem to have a set of "things" you're looking for in an MMO, the only thing I look for in an MMO is "Warcraft". Suffice it to say, I wouldn't play any MMOs if Blizzard had not made one out of my favorite video game franchises.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:09 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Definitely. While you seem to have a set of "things" you're looking for in an MMO, the only thing I look for in an MMO is "Warcraft". Suffice it to say, I wouldn't play any MMOs if Blizzard had not made one out of my favorite video game franchises.

This pretty much summarizes my stance on the matter as well. My gaming progression pretty much flowed from WarCraft->Diablo->SC->WC2->D2->WoW. I played other games in-between, and occasionally play through another game as a "break" from WoW, but those are almost always console games with limited replay value (stuff like GTA3, GTA:VC, FFX/X-2/XII, Assassins Creed 1&2, Lego SW/HP/IJ/etc).
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:20 pm

theckhd wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Definitely. While you seem to have a set of "things" you're looking for in an MMO, the only thing I look for in an MMO is "Warcraft". Suffice it to say, I wouldn't play any MMOs if Blizzard had not made one out of my favorite video game franchises.

This pretty much summarizes my stance on the matter as well. My gaming progression pretty much flowed from WarCraft->Diablo->SC->WC2->D2->WoW. I played other games in-between, and occasionally play through another game as a "break" from WoW, but those are almost always console games with limited replay value (stuff like GTA3, GTA:VC, FFX/X-2/XII, Assassins Creed 1&2, Lego SW/HP/IJ/etc).


same here. Been working on my console game backlog since we stopped raiding ICC.

Interesting that you played WC2 after SC though! how'd that happen?
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:40 pm

Actually, you're right. I was thinking of WC2 Bnet edition.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Feanorion » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:37 pm

theckhd wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Definitely. While you seem to have a set of "things" you're looking for in an MMO, the only thing I look for in an MMO is "Warcraft". Suffice it to say, I wouldn't play any MMOs if Blizzard had not made one out of my favorite video game franchises.

This pretty much summarizes my stance on the matter as well. My gaming progression pretty much flowed from WarCraft->Diablo->SC->WC2->D2->WoW. I played other games in-between, and occasionally play through another game as a "break" from WoW, but those are almost always console games with limited replay value (stuff like GTA3, GTA:VC, FFX/X-2/XII, Assassins Creed 1&2, Lego SW/HP/IJ/etc).


I never played a Warcraft or Starcraft game. I played Master of Orion 2, Civ 2-4, KotOR and KotOR 2--- then WoW for the 10-day trial.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Neptuno » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:56 pm

there are as many paths into wow as their are players in wow, so obviously they can make everybody happy... but i like that they are responding to feedback (as it seemed like they were ignoring both ideas and math contributed by the player base for quite a while during beta) even if they still seem to have a viagra overdose whenever they look at vengeance :(
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Feanorion » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:07 pm

My view is that not being able to block-cap makes block next to worthless from a gearing standpoint. We will have to stack EH again, because we can not afford 2-3 unblocked hits in a row if we do not make sure we have the EH to cover that eventuality. Yes, we will still want as much Mastery as we can get, but armor and stam will still be the only stats we can really make a concerted effort to stack. And if we can't stack armor? Then I just don't see any good option. Roller-coaster damage intake, tank sudden-death from a short string of 100% hits, and "LF Bear tank" will be seen in a lot of trade channels. Not that paladins (and warriors) will be unable to tank the content, only that it will be MUCH easier with a druid tank.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:15 pm

Feanorion wrote:My view is that not being able to block-cap makes block next to worthless from a gearing standpoint. We will have to stack EH again, because we can not afford 2-3 unblocked hits in a row if we do not make sure we have the EH to cover that eventuality. Yes, we will still want as much Mastery as we can get, but armor and stam will still be the only stats we can really make a concerted effort to stack. And if we can't stack armor? Then I just don't see any good option. Roller-coaster damage intake, tank sudden-death from a short string of 100% hits, and "LF Bear tank" will be seen in a lot of trade channels. Not that paladins (and warriors) will be unable to tank the content, only that it will be MUCH easier with a druid tank.

How about we give them a chance to tune things before we declare bears the MUCH better tank? There's nothing about not reaching the block cap that mechanically causes such a problem, there are plenty of numbers to tweak. And if I remember right, bears got nerfed pretty hard recently, so I'm sure they are watching it.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Paxen » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:55 am

Feanorion wrote:My view is that not being able to block-cap makes block next to worthless from a gearing standpoint. We will have to stack EH again, because we can not afford 2-3 unblocked hits in a row if we do not make sure we have the EH to cover that eventuality. Yes, we will still want as much Mastery as we can get, but armor and stam will still be the only stats we can really make a concerted effort to stack. And if we can't stack armor? Then I just don't see any good option. Roller-coaster damage intake, tank sudden-death from a short string of 100% hits, and "LF Bear tank" will be seen in a lot of trade channels. Not that paladins (and warriors) will be unable to tank the content, only that it will be MUCH easier with a druid tank.


This will only happen if blizz fails at their stated goal (making avoidance and mana matter, slowing down tank deaths)
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Feanorion » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:08 am

Paxen wrote:
Feanorion wrote:My view is that not being able to block-cap makes block next to worthless from a gearing standpoint. We will have to stack EH again, because we can not afford 2-3 unblocked hits in a row if we do not make sure we have the EH to cover that eventuality. Yes, we will still want as much Mastery as we can get, but armor and stam will still be the only stats we can really make a concerted effort to stack. And if we can't stack armor? Then I just don't see any good option. Roller-coaster damage intake, tank sudden-death from a short string of 100% hits, and "LF Bear tank" will be seen in a lot of trade channels. Not that paladins (and warriors) will be unable to tank the content, only that it will be MUCH easier with a druid tank.


This will only happen if blizz fails at their stated goal (making avoidance and mana matter, slowing down tank deaths)


Incorrect. This will happen if Cata mobs/bosses hit hard enough to 2-3 shot tanks. From what I hear, the Cata stuff hits for a metric ton. Tanking has always, and always will, revolve around preparing for the worst RNG case. If RNG allows us to take 3 unblocked hits consecutively, we will HAVE to gear strictly and solely for EH to the exclusion of all else when and where we have the possibility to do so. The healers will have to come up with their own solutions for mana.

If the healer still has mana, but I die from bad RNG--- game over.

If the healer is drained of mana, but I live because I stacked EH--- we're still in the game. Mana pot, LOH the healer, pop all trinkets/cd's, Enervate, Enh. Shammy or Ret drops emergency heals until healer can get back up to speed.

Lots of options for a depleted healer mana bar. No options at all for a depleted tank health bar.
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