Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Candiru » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:58 pm

Oh, I forgot our mana regen scales with int while holy paladin's doesn't.

That *is* very easy to fix, however! Why is our regen not a % of base mana?

If our regen was on base mana, then there is no way we could ever be a sustained healing machine, since we lack the spi->mp5 talent and there will be no mp5 gear, only spi. And since we aren't supposed to be wanting int on our gear, why have a mastery scale with it? Retarded!

Even so, a Prot paladin in holy gear who can heal for a ton ONLY FOR 20s AFTER BEING ATTACKED still isn't that great a threat. Just don't attack him, or nuke him and interrupt. He has no instant heals, so most DPS can keep you locked/stunned etc.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:31 pm

Candiru wrote:Oh, I forgot our mana regen scales with int while holy paladin's doesn't.

That *is* very easy to fix, however! Why is our regen not a % of base mana?

If our regen was on base mana, then there is no way we could ever be a sustained healing machine, since we lack the spi->mp5 talent and there will be no mp5 gear, only spi. And since we aren't supposed to be wanting int on our gear, why have a mastery scale with it? Retarded!

Even so, a Prot paladin in holy gear who can heal for a ton ONLY FOR 20s AFTER BEING ATTACKED still isn't that great a threat. Just don't attack him, or nuke him and interrupt. He has no instant heals, so most DPS can keep you locked/stunned etc.


Our regen is a % of base mana. Base mana seems to increase a whooooole lot between 80 and 85. I guess compared to the cost of the expensive heals, the regen is meaningless, but I bet you could spam decently large Holy Lights for quite a while.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Orthien » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:59 pm

That having been said... does Word of Glory even scale from SP at all?

As far as I am aware it only scales with level and HoPo, so its heal and shield will get worse as we move through the expansion anyway.
I hope they do work this out because I really want to be able to use it in a survival build, particularly cuppled with the talent in Ret alowing for a free WoG so we can keep SoR going.

On CS its scaling rather strong with gear in the PTR so while my tanking gear puts it far below HoR, swaping to Ret gear in a Prot spec puts it far above. If they buff it more along with WoG then Prot PvP could be alot of fun.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Flex » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:01 pm

Prot and Ret should have the same base AP to SP ability, dumb to have different ones.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Shathus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:40 pm

Orthien wrote:
That having been said... does Word of Glory even scale from SP at all?

As far as I am aware it only scales with level and HoPo, so its heal and shield will get worse as we move through the expansion anyway.
I hope they do work this out because I really want to be able to use it in a survival build, particularly cuppled with the talent in Ret alowing for a free WoG so we can keep SoR going.

On CS its scaling rather strong with gear in the PTR so while my tanking gear puts it far below HoR, swaping to Ret gear in a Prot spec puts it far above. If they buff it more along with WoG then Prot PvP could be alot of fun.


Tried on the PTR, in my base holy spec, with prot gear, it healed for ~5500 with 3 HoPow, in my holy gear, it healed for ~7500 with 3 HoPow, so it's scaling with SOME stat (assume int or SP)
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:48 pm

Shathus wrote:Tried on the PTR, in my base holy spec, with prot gear, it healed for ~5500 with 3 HoPow, in my holy gear, it healed for ~7500 with 3 HoPow, so it's scaling with SOME stat (assume int or SP)


Ok thanks for the info
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Shathus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:21 pm

Follow-up to my previous post, I think it must scale with INT and not SP.

I tried 2 tests, both where in the same gear set (tanking gear).
Code: Select all
         Int    SP     Normal     Crit
Prot     5629   1031   4900       7100
Holy     5704   96     5400       8200


Those are about average values (give or take a few hundred either way). The main thing is that the Int remains pretty constant where-as SP is drastically different. My holy spec giving Walk in the Light would account for some of the difference in values as well.

This would lead me to believe WoG will scale with gear for Holy pallies, but ret and prot would remain unchanged with upgrades as SP doesn't affect it. So whatever value we get at 85 will be about what we have for the expansion, ie: the more HP we get as tank, the smaller relative heal it will become.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Flex » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:08 pm

WoG should take the path of TV and ShoR. 5%/10%/30% of your target's maximum health healed. Or 25%/50%/150% of your SP
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Daraxis » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:18 pm

I took GbtL for a few builds to try it out, but I think I've settled on putting the points into Hallowed Ground right now (with a brief detour into Reckoning).

GbtL has a number of flaws which come back to holy power usage and I think the actual heal will have to be at overpowered levels before WoG will get used over saving for a three-stack SotR/Inq. I've made suggestions that it proc as a 'consumes no holy power + three-stack effect' type effect (which showed up two builds later as Ret's Mastery... ), or that we get additional holy power gains. The flipside to this is that Prot already plays too much like a DPS spec with so many procs and resources to watch.

Hallowed Ground is working for me right now - it means I can throw in Consecration on cooldown, which I tend to do, since HW/AS/HotR are better snap threat for aoe. Reckoning is fine, but it doesn't add anything to playstyle, which is boring in a pre-number-balancing scenario. If Reckoning doesn't change, we'll simply treat it like we do now - it'll sit somewhere in a priority order of threat talents.

So yeah, I don't think GbtL won't be taken because of the heal amount, but because of the underlying holy power/rotational problems.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:13 am

Shathus wrote:Follow-up to my previous post, I think it must scale with INT and not SP.

I tried 2 tests, both where in the same gear set (tanking gear).
Code: Select all
         Int    SP     Normal     Crit
Prot     5629   1031   4900       7100
Holy     5704   96     5400       8200


Those are about average values (give or take a few hundred either way). The main thing is that the Int remains pretty constant where-as SP is drastically different. My holy spec giving Walk in the Light would account for some of the difference in values as well.

This would lead me to believe WoG will scale with gear for Holy pallies, but ret and prot would remain unchanged with upgrades as SP doesn't affect it. So whatever value we get at 85 will be about what we have for the expansion, ie: the more HP we get as tank, the smaller relative heal it will become.


I'm a little confused. Where is that SP number coming from? You know that Int grants SP at a 1:1 ratio, right?
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:15 am

Sabindeus wrote:I'm a little confused. Where is that SP number coming from? You know that Int grants SP at a 1:1 ratio, right?

I assume he used the same gear in both Prot and Holy specs. In Holy spec, the lack of INT on gear would mean he'd have very little spellpower. In Prot spec, he'd be getting a chunk of spellpower from TbtL.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:16 am

theckhd wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:I'm a little confused. Where is that SP number coming from? You know that Int grants SP at a 1:1 ratio, right?

I assume he used the same gear in both Prot and Holy specs. In Holy spec, the lack of INT on gear would mean he'd have very little spellpower. In Prot spec, he'd be getting a chunk of spellpower from TbtL.


Well my confusion was at the Int columns saying 5k+ when he was in tanking gear.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:18 am

Oh. I hadn't even noticed the column heading, I had implicitly assumed that column was max mana based on the values.
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:19 am

Yeah I guess 5k int on the PTR wouldn't make sense...
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Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:21 am

I have a feeling the SP granted by Touched by the Light doesn't affect healing. Either that or I was right and Word of Glory does not scale with SP.
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