Remove Advertisements

Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Thornir » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:51 am

Maybe if they set it to gain a HoPo off of blocking? That's random enough to make our rotation fluctuate, but with an ICD it would controllable enough in an AoE environment.
Many fall, but one remains. - The Stranger
Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour. - Patrick Stewart
Thornir

*Now with 100% more beef!*
User avatar
Thornir
 
Posts: 621
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: In some sewers beneath a prison somewhere

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Chicken » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:58 am

theckhd wrote:
Flex wrote:The extra Holy Damage on HotR hits the primary target so it does a fair bit more damage with fast weapons.

Wasn't there a blue post somewhere saying that was unintentional though? I might be misremembering.
I (And likely a bunch of others!) suggested that as a way of fixing the problem but it's not something Blizzard has officially stated.

theckhd wrote:Either way, it would be a simple fix. Instead of hitting the primary target for 30% and having a baseline amount for the splash damage, just remove the primary target part and have it hit everyone in the AoE for 30% weapon damage. Numbers subject to tweaking of course - with this situation you could boost it to 60% or 75% to balance our AoE effectiveness without having to worry about eclipsing CS.
It'd still have to do the damage as Holy damage though, they do want it to interact with Inquisition for extra AoE threat. Though a similar idea in regards to fixing the ability would be to make it do 30% weapon damage and a seal proc on all targets hit. That's automatically balanced with CS (As that's 100% damage + seal proc I believe?), and adds a bit of uniqueness to the ability since it borrows more from Paladin mechanics to achieve its effect.
Image
User avatar
Chicken
 
Posts: 1597
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:09 am

I was still intending it to do Holy damage, though I guess I didn't state that explicitly. I like the seal idea too, that's clever. The 30% weapon damage portion may still have to be Holy though to make the Inquisition tie-in more obvious.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Flex » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:11 am

Thornir wrote:Maybe if they set it to gain a HoPo off of blocking? That's random enough to make our rotation fluctuate, but with an ICD it would controllable enough in an AoE environment.


The explicitly stated they do not like the idea of having it be tied to being attacked as it makes it more beneficial to tank more on a paladin.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7488
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Darielle » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:24 am

Since we can't get to second tier talents anyway on the PTR, I just went for Reckoning, which is kinda awesome.
Darielle
 
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:41 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:37 am

I guess I was looking at it from buffing CS not tweaking HotR, mostly because CS is really weak as a button to press compared to everything else, even judgement, with my gear.

It would be nice if HotR scaled directly with weapon damage, I agree. Then it would be less of a direct rip off of holy nova, at least. I don't think they can go much above 50% though, since they have to keep a mind for holy dmg vs physical damage in pvp or something.
Rasmfrackn
Dwarf Paladin
Icecrown Server
Eng/Scribe/Masochist
User avatar
Rasmfrackn
 
Posts: 1014
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:11 pm

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:11 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:I guess I was looking at it from buffing CS not tweaking HotR, mostly because CS is really weak as a button to press compared to everything else, even judgement, with my gear.

It would be nice if HotR scaled directly with weapon damage, I agree. Then it would be less of a direct rip off of holy nova, at least. I don't think they can go much above 50% though, since they have to keep a mind for holy dmg vs physical damage in pvp or something.


Well, it wouldn't be hard to buff CS with a deep prot talent. "Your Crusader Strike now hits 50% harder when using a 1-handed weapon," for example. It's a bland enough boost that it could easily be tied into any of the other bland deep prot talents.

I think their original intent was that you should be excited to hit CS anyway because of Holy Power. Since it doesn't seem that sentiment has taken hold, it wouldn't hurt to buff its damage to make us more excited about it.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7658
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Noradin » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 am

If we got SP from AP instead of STR and thus from vengeance WoG might be something to consider.

And CS could just always hit for 150% weapon damage when used with a onehanded weapon. It's not like ret would switch since they would loose damage on other abilities or loose weapon swings. (But holy might use it more.)
Last edited by Noradin on Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage
Noradin
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:00 am

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:22 am

Noradin wrote:If we got SP from AP instead of STR and thus from vengeance WoG might be something to consider.


I think that's exactly why it doesn't work that way. Consider how unstoppable Prot Paladins in healing gear would be in PVP.

That having been said... does Word of Glory even scale from SP at all?
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10456
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Dantriges » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:07 pm

Seems to me we have to wait half a year until they get us up to an ancceptable level as usual.
Dantriges
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:39 am

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby PsiVen » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:38 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Noradin wrote:If we got SP from AP instead of STR and thus from vengeance WoG might be something to consider.


I think that's exactly why it doesn't work that way. Consider how unstoppable Prot Paladins in healing gear would be in PVP.

That having been said... does Word of Glory even scale from SP at all?


I'm getting really sick of this reasoning as it seems to be Blizzard's basis for destroying Prot/Ret self-healing abilities. Nobody likes "Proly" or Ret healing specs, so stop tiptoeing around and make them impossible. Protection/Retribution specialization: Reduces the benefit from Intellect on gear by 100%. Solved.
Gladiator Psiven, 90 Tankadin
90 Druid, 90 Mage, 85 Monk, 85 DK, 70 War, 70 Pal, 60 Priest, 60 Lock, 64 Rogue
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4363
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Darielle » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:55 pm

I'm getting really sick of this reasoning as it seems to be Blizzard's basis for destroying Prot/Ret self-healing abilities. Nobody likes "Proly" or Ret healing specs, so stop tiptoeing around and make them impossible. Protection/Retribution specialization: Reduces the benefit from Intellect on gear by 100%. Solved.


Unfortunately I doubt that'll ever happen unless things get really out of hand - along with the laundry list of things they tiptoe around because they want things to work a way, but don't want to do X to force it to work.
Darielle
 
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:41 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:13 pm

I don't really think having Word of Glory not scale with Vengeance is such a huge issue. It just needs to be tuned to heal for some reasonable amount for Prot.
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10456
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Candiru » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:34 pm

Having spellpower scale with AP would also make it scale with HP(with vengeance.)

Warriors and Dks have abilities which heal a %of max health, so I don't see why we shouldn't have the same thing. In PvP you can just *not* attack the paladin for a few seconds and let the buff drop off. Or dispel it. And its only a heal every 12s which stops the paladin doing any meaningful damage...

Can we just get spellpower to scale with HP again directly? That would solve the vengeance problem since it comes to the same thing, only we wouldn't need vengeance up. This was only taken away due to holy paladins in prot gear, but with Divine Plea and SoW changes, that won't be viable at all.
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Re: Does anyone pick up GbtL ?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:48 pm

Candiru wrote:Having spellpower scale with AP would also make it scale with HP(with vengeance.)

Warriors and Dks have abilities which heal a %of max health, so I don't see why we shouldn't have the same thing. In PvP you can just *not* attack the paladin for a few seconds and let the buff drop off. Or dispel it. And its only a heal every 12s which stops the paladin doing any meaningful damage...

Can we just get spellpower to scale with HP again directly? That would solve the vengeance problem since it comes to the same thing, only we wouldn't need vengeance up. This was only taken away due to holy paladins in prot gear, but with Divine Plea and SoW changes, that won't be viable at all.


I dunno, I'd be pretty scared of having 100k HP Prot Paladins in Holy Gear with 10k of spellpower from Vengeance, plus whatever's on their gear, throwing around Flashes and Divine Lights, and then Judging to get like 7k mana back.
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10456
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

PreviousNext

Return to Cataclysm

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest