ZG is gone asa raid instance

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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:07 am

Chunes wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:Do you have a link for the AQ stuff? I'd like to take a look.


Just youtube AQ exploration.

Here's an interesting one that even shows the technique for getting "out" of AQ while still inside the instance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT1DdsvENog

The vids I remember though were actually of the overworld area where the instance is located. I'd spend a little longer hunting them down, but they're likely very outdated and I'm at work anyway. That video though is from 3.3.0 though.

Oh wow. Very neat. Thanks!
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Kelaan » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:11 am

Teranoid wrote:So of all the raids in Azeroth they pick ZG?
Retarded.


Disagree. The zone is phenomenally well done; on par with Blackrock Depths (or Wailing Caverns) in complexity. If they were to delevel the place, and put it someplace else, then sure -- great dungeon. The thing is, I'm not sure there NEEDS to be another one ... but at least then it's likely to be seen by leveling people, instead of being only a playground for those who are nostalgic. If they removed some trash, it'd be a very well done instance. (As it is, it's kindof big.)

That said, I leveled past Uldaman completely by accident on my shaman. So, more dungeons may not be all that special.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Teranoid » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:25 am

Kelaan wrote:
Teranoid wrote:So of all the raids in Azeroth they pick ZG?
Retarded.


Disagree. The zone is phenomenally well done; on par with Blackrock Depths (or Wailing Caverns) in complexity. If they were to delevel the place, and put it someplace else, then sure -- great dungeon. The thing is, I'm not sure there NEEDS to be another one ... but at least then it's likely to be seen by leveling people, instead of being only a playground for those who are nostalgic. If they removed some trash, it'd be a very well done instance. (As it is, it's kindof big.)

That said, I leveled past Uldaman completely by accident on my shaman. So, more dungeons may not be all that special.


Or yknow.. they could have just left it as is as they did the rest of the raids.

Its probably just the nostalgia or the fact that I still don't have the Tiger talking but it doesn't make sense why its all of the sudden being turned into a quest zone while MC/BWL/AQ still sit as stale old raid farming grounds for guild achievements/achievement whores.
Last edited by Teranoid on Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Ryyu » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:31 am

theckhd wrote:
Chunes wrote:I personally would think it grand for the "real" ZG to actually be downgraded to a level 38-42'ish 5man dungeon. At that level you could still reward the mounts as super rare drops, much like the ring from SM Lib. They'd be level appropriate too, since epic riding comes at 40 now, right?

This would give the leveling range a good 5man option to rival SM cath as the de-facto leveling spot for those in the 40 range.

The only problem I foresee is that the zone is pretty big, considering the fact that it was originally a raid instance. I doubt the average 5man would have the stamina to clear ZG more than a few times unless the loot for that level was exceptionally good.


It's a big zone, but i don't think it's that much bigger than ZF or ST. It would be easy to speed it up by removing a chunk of the trash. And it sounds like their current design already reduced the number of bosses.

For the amount of design work that would have to go into it (delete trash, drop HP and damage of mobs/bosses, remove a few spells that don't work as well in small groups), it would be an awfully quick retrofit. All of the layout and artistic assets are already done.


also there are quite a few areas they could just block off and relocate the boss, have the bat boss at the top of that slope rather than in the larger room etc, you dont need as large a space as on live currently for 5 man content, and removing alot of the areas will hardly detract from the whole thing.


Or yknow.. they could have just left it as is as they did the rest of the raids.

Its probably just the nostalgia or the fact that I still don't have the Tiger talking but it doesn't make sense why its all of the sudden being turned into a quest zone while MC/BWL/AQ still sit as stale old raid farming grounds for guild achievements.


ZG has some of the best lore in game, much of which remains untaped, It contained some of the at the time most original and interesting mechanics so far seen and is highly reguarded(please ignore the weasel words) as one of the best raids.

Most raiders these days will have no idea as to how fun it was, the Idea of them reanimating it it as quest zone is a great idea, They will probably reintroduce the mounts elsewhere perhaps even as Zandalar tribe rep if they decide to do anything with it. Who knows. As much as we want new stuff, re-imagining old content is still a great way to (with minimal effort vs creating a new zones) do something with something gone to waste bar achi/mount/lvl 60 guilds, give the new players something completely different, and give us Jaded veterans a nostalgic loregasm.
Last edited by Ryyu on Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby dmok » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:36 am

Teranoid wrote:Or yknow.. they could have just left it as is as they did the rest of the raids.

Its probably just the nostalgia or the fact that I still don't have the Tiger talking but it doesn't make sense why its all of the sudden being turned into a quest zone while MC/BWL/AQ still sit as stale old raid farming grounds for guild achievements/achievement whores.

I think the issue is surrounding the ability to fly in Azeroth. Since there is physical *space* for ZG on the map, players could fly over the portal and into the zone. It sounds to me like they want to actually make use of that space instead of just walling it off.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:38 am

dmok wrote:
Teranoid wrote:Or yknow.. they could have just left it as is as they did the rest of the raids.

Its probably just the nostalgia or the fact that I still don't have the Tiger talking but it doesn't make sense why its all of the sudden being turned into a quest zone while MC/BWL/AQ still sit as stale old raid farming grounds for guild achievements/achievement whores.

I think the issue is surrounding the ability to fly in Azeroth. Since there is physical *space* for ZG on the map, players could fly over the portal and into the zone. It sounds to me like they want to actually make use of that space instead of just walling it off.


Yep, totally done this. It's creepy.

Now what pisses me off is that they flagged Dire Maul and Ahn'Qiraj as not flyable (this almost killed me).

edit: Also Stratholme
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Ryyu » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:42 am

I have to add, i kinda hope AQ20 gets this treatment, as much as I enjoy farming the books.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby PsiVen » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:51 am

There's no reason to remove a raid instance just because you're making it flyable in the outside world. As was pointed out elsewhere, there is a long list of precedent for instances which are at least partially outside and accessible, and nobody minds.

They wouldn't remove ZG unless they had something else in mind for it. A more in-depth questing area? A low level dungeon instead? Who knows, and we certainly don't know what they'll do with the Polymorph tome or the mounts.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby dmok » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:57 am

PsiVen wrote:There's no reason to remove a raid instance just because you're making it flyable in the outside world. As was pointed out elsewhere, there is a long list of precedent for instances which are at least partially outside and accessible, and nobody minds.

If memory serves me right, all the other instances with partially outdoor and accessible areas are underground/interior instances (Deadmines, ST, Wailing Caverns, Mauradon come to mind).

I wouldn't complain if they just cleaned up the terrain so you could explore the zones with no mobs in them, but I applaud the developers for trying to come up with some use for the space instead of leaving it dead and barren. If you add quests to Dire Maul for example, people might actually get reaquainted with the lore surrounding it instead of just powering through some random instance to get their lootbag as fast as possible.

It actually makes me a bit sad that ZG is the only zone getting this treatment, but maybe it's just the first one considering ZG and AQ are the only "raids" that need to be cordoned off.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Arianne » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:47 am

I'm just sad because I've been farming for the mounts, probably around 80% of the resets and still haven't gotten either. :\
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Chunes » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:26 pm

[quote=]...it doesn't make sense why its all of the sudden being turned into a quest zone while MC/BWL/AQ still sit as stale old raid farming grounds for guild achievements/achievement whores.[/quote]

The only thing to note is that ZG was originally a 20 man raid instance while MC/BWL/AQ were 40 (unless you're specifically referring to AQ20, but lumping it with MC and BWL I assumed you referred to the temple of Ahn'Qiraj, not the ruins).

Revamping the 40 man raids and even some of the 20man raids into 5man content would be tough because of the aforementioned scale of these instances. Even if you thinned out the trash in MC, that's still quite a bit of running when compared to instances like Azjol Nerub or the Violet Hold.

I'm not opposed to huge 5man zones. Hell, I really enjoyed BRD back in the day and even clearing LBRS through to UBRS was fun for me because it was challenging and I was playing a class I loved (healy priest back then).

Unfortunately, instance design as of late has decided to cater to the typical ADHD MTV XBOX LIVE console ape attention span of about 17.3 minutes or less per instance. Gone are the days of taking an hour and a half to clear to the emperor in BRD, or taking 45-50 minutes to clear to Gandling in Scholo (post nerf ofc.)
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Leuthas » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:40 pm

I believe Sethekk Halls has "windows" in the ceiling which aren't closed, but you can't get into the intstance.
Stratholme of course is outdoors.
Trial of the Champion.
Dire Maul.
Drak'tharon Keep.
Hellfire Ramparts.
Magister's Terrace.
Razorfen Kraul.
Razorfen Downs. (??)
Scarlet Monestary.
Shadowfang Keep.
The Oculus.
Utgarde Keep.
Utgarde Pinnacle.
Zul'Farrak.
Black Temple.
Blackwing Lair.
Trial of the Crusader.
Icecrown Citadel.
Karazhan.
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj.
Sunwell Plateau.
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj.
Ulduar.
Zul'Aman.
... and of course Zul'Gurub each have significant outdoor areas or places seemingly open to the outside world to a degree that would allow a flying mount inside - yet you can't do that.

They're not removing ZG because they don't want to put invisible walls around it.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Dianora » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:12 pm

culhag wrote:I'm glad I finally got the tiger last week. (after 14 months of farming !)


Still farming the raptor.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Ardrhyst » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:24 pm

Dianora wrote:
culhag wrote:I'm glad I finally got the tiger last week. (after 14 months of farming !)


Still farming the raptor.


Been 20 months now. Every reset. Haven't seen either of them.

Hope is wearing thin.
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Re: ZG is gone asa raid instance

Postby Warsadin » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:07 pm

Always darkest before the dawn mate. Keep on trucking.
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