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Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby heuvarius » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:00 am

knaughty wrote:I did all the TBC heroics in a mix of blue gear and maybe some early Karazhan pieces, though I'd tanked whatever heroics were required to key for Kara prior, obviously. I recall nothing in Wrath that's remotely close to that difficulty, though obviously the memory is somewhat faded after 3+ years.


I distinctly remember hitting my first heroic at 70 after farming normal dungeons for a few days, and getting crunched by the first few mobs in Slave Pens. That was promptly followed by announcing it to the guild tanking more than 1 heroic mob for any extended period of time is impossible without raiding gear and get laughed at because everyone believed Paladins can't tank and it was a class problem. That was quickly quenched when our warrior MT had the same fate after he hit 70 and tried it for himself.

This is quite different to the level 80 experience. I pretty much leveled to 80 and got dragged into a heroic straight after hitting 80 and regemming defense in all my t6/sunwell tanking gear. Apart from a few fairly brutal mobs like the Charge/Poison Spear mobs in HoL, there has barely been much challenge in any of the heroics throughout.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Chicken » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:12 am

Ghostcrawler wrote:We're also taking a hard look at combat ratings across the board right now in Cataclysm. We removed so many passive combat ratings from the talent trees (as well as things like Misery and the Draenei racial) that we're concerned that our current ratings are too brutal. If we relax those, then everyone will see their hit go up.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26262991198&sid=1&pageNo=2#28

That was posted nearly a month ago and they haven't changed the rating conversions on beta since though.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby hoho » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:16 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:A factor of six?!?! SIX? :roll:

-- Hit capping will require like every gear slot. I don't relish the idea of interrupts and CC the aren't guaranteed.
<3 being shadowpriest, we get hit from spirit at 1:1 ratio. Currently it takes around 1.7k hit to cap as a caster
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:52 am

Sabindeus wrote:and don't forget that Hit is a Blue Gem stat now!


And dodge is yellow~

That reminds me, the JC figurine for tanking is quite underbudget compared to the plate dps figurine.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Minarva » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:51 am

I would imagine that is a bug. Would expect similar stats as the melee one except maybe a dodge equip instead of crit, or slightly more sta in the place of str perhaps.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Marsha » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:19 pm

Ghostcrawler wrote:The icon highlights for things like Overpower and Revenge need a little more polish so that they don't stay lit all the time or light up during a cooldown.

You will eventually be able to turn off the icon highlights as well as the large spell alerts (the Power Auras-like notifications) if you don't want to use them.

We have a new feature to display a few newbie-friendly tooltip for spells. Some of the abilities have this text activated, such as Heroic Strike. You should be able to turn it off.

The Glyph of Raging Blow was conceived during a long pub crawl, where we often do some of our best work, but in this case we'd agree it's a dumb idea.

Ghostcrawler wrote:Your primary stats go up, but your combat ratings go down. The reason for this is that those ratings convert to percentages. If you started with say 50% crit chance, and then gained a level and your new gear had say +4% crit chance instead of +2% crit chance, then you'd quickly get to 100% crit and stay there. This was the reason we implemented combat ratings in the first place. (You can blame Blackhand's Breadth.)

This particularly gets to be a problem when you reach max level. The reason is because you are going to go through several tiers of gear without increasing your character level, so we need to have enough space in the numbers for them to increase. We figure out what the highest say crit and haste chance the game can handle and then work backwards giving each tier a meaningful upgrade (or getting new gear won't be fun) and that determines the combat ratings on the starting gear.

We definitely understand the confusion / weird perception issues this causes and we've talked about some ways to completely revamp the game's combat equations so that we didn't need to use percentage-based stats influenced by ratings with diminishing returns. That is too large a change for Cataclysm, but something we might do in the future (when we aren't also tackling talent and glyph revamps).

Also remember that if you are leveling to 85, you are skipping over a lot of potential quest rewards that you can't get yet. The item leaps among levels are pretty large at level 80-85, which we had to do to make the upgrades feel meaningful. (Imagine the alternatives where you could go to Twilight Highlands directly from Icecrown and do okay.) Once those quest items are in, you'll be more powerful as you level.


To comment on some points raised on this thread (and others), remember this expansion is all about change, and on Beta right now, we're experiencing those changes without the items we'll be expected to pick up as we quest and level. It's getting there, but it's not done yet, and until the actual numbers start getting adjusted, it's all a bit premature to really worry about things like avoidance, dps, threat, etc with any certainty until we have some hard numbers to work with, and the skills are essentially set in stone (as far as that ever happens).

Keep an open mind about things as they're being tested. Get over the fact you'll be doing anything at 85 remotely hard in 277/284 gear other than the odd item or two you still haven't replaced by level 85. T10 tier bonuses aren't going to matter - Really, trust me on that. That ship has sailed and isn't coming back. I'm currently using a green shield that's better than my 277 BQ shield except it's missing a gem socket. There's a nice blue mace from some dungeon boss that has over 1K top end damage. I have green 305 boots that are just plain better than anything on live right now except for the missing gem slot. My green Libram is excellent, and yet even with the few quest items and drops I've picked up, I still can't meet the queue requirements for the final 2 dungeons. At 85 I'm at 290 or something and I need 305 to use the LFG tool.

Change is good, embrace the new, cherish the memories how how it felt to finally get that awesome drop that eluded you for so long, but all things progress in a game like this. I can't wait to disenchant all my current gear.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Leuthas » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:29 pm

I can't wait to disenchant all my current gear.

And sell the shards for 2g a piece!

I'm getting all worried about what I'm going to do about my minimal bank/bag space. I have two bags filled with BoP stuff I intend to keep, and my bank is entirely filled with BoP items, which I intend to keep, and most are irreplacable. Somehow I need to make room for building a Prot, Ret and Holy set out of Cataclysm gear.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:03 am

The datamined stuff from mmo-champion.
Mace of Transformed Bone (1H Mace)
Bulwark of the Primordial Mound (Shield)
Fingers of Light (Hands)
Earthshape Pauldrons (Shoulders)
Armguards of Unearthly Light (Wrist)
Shroud of Dark Memories (Back)
Temple Band (Finger)
Darkhowl Amulet (Neck)
Thronguss Finger (Trinket)

I seriously hate how we're gonna be fighting for hit, expertise and mastery with the plate dps classes. I mean, you already do on random heroics when a plate wearer rolls on defense items just because it's an epic and a straight upgrade from their gear. I think for the first month or two, you'll only be running with people you know just to avoid these kind of situations.

This trinket and the JC tanking one seem subpar actually.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:29 am

Also note that GC has said they have yet to do any numbers reviews, and are waiting until the mechanics feel good.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:36 am

Sabindeus wrote:Also note that GC has said they have yet to do any numbers reviews, and are waiting until the mechanics feel good.


Yeah, that's true~ But it does strikes me as odd that the str dps trinket from JC seems more complete than the tanky one.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Flex » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:47 am

Klaudandus wrote:I seriously hate how we're gonna be fighting for hit, expertise and mastery with the plate dps classes.


All of the pieces you listed are Avoidance stat/Hit or Expertise or Mastery making them inferior DPS pieces and a quick eyeball test shows them to be tanking pieces.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Loras » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:43 am

When it has avoidance, of course it'll be bad for a dpser. But I'm more concerned about some pieces like "Str, Sta, Hit, Mastery". Hit would turn into a valuable stat for us I guess, and Mastery means block rating, so you can consider that a piece that's good for both dpsers and tanks.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Flex » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:55 am

Loras wrote:When it has avoidance, of course it'll be bad for a dpser. But I'm more concerned about some pieces like "Str, Sta, Hit, Mastery". Hit would turn into a valuable stat for us I guess, and Mastery means block rating, so you can consider that a piece that's good for both dpsers and tanks.


Well imagine how a DPSer will feel that a tank is rolling on his hit/mastery plate. I'd expect to see minimal crit/mastery and expertise/mastery items simply to avoid that.
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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby ulushnar » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:58 am

Flex wrote:
Loras wrote:When it has avoidance, of course it'll be bad for a dpser. But I'm more concerned about some pieces like "Str, Sta, Hit, Mastery". Hit would turn into a valuable stat for us I guess, and Mastery means block rating, so you can consider that a piece that's good for both dpsers and tanks.


Well imagine how a DPSer will feel that a tank is rolling on his hit/mastery plate.


Well how do Rogues in live feel about Feral Tanks rolling on "their" leather? If it's an issue, I haven't come across it and I wouldn't tolerate it.

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Re: Cataclysmic Gear Replacement

Postby Loras » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:01 am

One slight difference - Ferals have no other option :) Inb4 the qq of people saying "you have your dodge equivalent, GTFO!"
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