Build 12857 (31.8.10)

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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Arincia » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:17 pm

Well the talent i cited was 100% chance per direct hit to gain a HP but it can't occur more then every 2 seconds. Something like that wouldn't have to much variation in the long term and short term effects. But then again i feel that the balancing issue is that WoG would start to be used if threat from SoR wasn't needed to be used all the time.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby theckhd » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Klaudandus wrote:It's hard to call Retribution's hopow regen spiky when they generate it at a much faster rate than us -- and in our case, if we miss our CS or HotR, there goes our HoPow for that CD


It's not hard at all, it's accurate. Spiky doesn't have anything to do with the average generation rate, it describes the variance.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:33 pm

If we assume (agh) that our defensive capabilities are balanced around 3 Hpow per 13.5s, I don't believe a proc based generator would variance our tanking ability into oblivion.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:33 pm

MEANWHILE

When are they going to put this patch up? Seriously, it's been many hours! :(

EDIT: NEVER MIND DATA IS HERE
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:39 pm

Sabindeus wrote:MEANWHILE

When are they going to put this patch up? Seriously, it's been many hours! :(

EDIT: NEVER MIND DATA IS HERE

This post contains some truth.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Yelena » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:40 pm

Given the HoPo dumps available to Prot currently, do we -need- a higher HoPo generation rate? Unless we're given another ability or so to dump Holy Power with, increasing the generation rate will likely lead to reducing the damage of Shield of the Righteous, lowering the base duration of Inquisition, and the like.

End result, given the current model, would be that our net output wouldn't change (on average), but we might fill some of those empty GCDs, which goes against the grain of the anti-GCD-locked movement Blizzard seems to be aiming for.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Warsadin » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:55 pm

Where is all my data on this new patch? I want mmo-champ to update stat with the actual notes and not the data-mined ones from earlier! Or some confirmation from him that they are in fact the patch notes from this patch in their entirely.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:00 pm

Warsadin wrote:Where is all my data on this new patch? I want mmo-champ to update stat with the actual notes and not the data-mined ones from earlier! Or some confirmation from him that they are in fact the patch notes from this patch in their entirely.

I would gladly confirm for you if the servers were up.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Amanor » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:08 pm

Yelena wrote:Given the HoPo dumps available to Prot currently, do we -need- a higher HoPo generation rate?


If they want us to use WoG, yes.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Modal » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:26 pm

Klaudandus wrote:and in our case, if we miss our CS or HotR, there goes our HoPow for that CD


This is a legitimate concern; it seems that we are likely to suffer somewhat in mitigation terms from not being hit/expertise capped, which is something of a disadvantage compared to other tanks.

Yelena wrote:Given the HoPo dumps available to Prot currently, do we -need- a higher HoPo generation rate?


If they want us to use WoG, yes.


I don't really see how 1 extra Holy Power here or there would let us use WoG, though. Suppose you're merrily doing your rotation and 2xCS in, you get a free Holy Power. Yay! But what are you going to do with it? Cast WoG? No, because that sets you back with respect to getting to your next 3-ShoR; HS falls off if you wait, and you lose threat if you don't wait.

All extra Holy Power would do is boost threat by giving us more 3-ShoR casts and/or reaching a tipping point where we can sometimes get Inq. up for combining with ShoRs. Juggling Inq. and ShoR this way sounds like a headache, both for us and for balance. You might think frequent-enough ShoR will mean tons of left-over Holy Power for WoG, but of course if we can generate the threat of a 3-ShoR every few seconds, then we'll have to be balanced around the assumption that we will.

Taken to the extreme is basically just equivalent to giving us Ret's rotation with ShoR instead of TV. If that's what they're going for, a better way to achieve it than giving us tons of extra Holy Power generators is just to give us 30s Inquisition (which will mean balancing around an assumed 100% uptime) and a slightly variable rate of ShoR casts. I guess I can imagine why some people would like that better.

Personally I don't really see a reason to prefer this to the way they have it now. I have had enough of RNG-based spikey threat with Rune Strike procs on my DK tank.

If we're going to cast WoG, we're going to do it because we value healing + shielding more than threat and possibly HS uptime. Just giving us more holy power isn't really going to affect that trade-off.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Arincia » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:17 am

As far i can remember i think there was a recent announcement or statement a while ago that CS would always generate HP regardless of miss/dodge/parry/block etc. I would have go digging to try and find it but i do believe i had read something to that extent a while ago. (could be i am remembering it wrong or had misread it)

If that's the case then we're always going CS3>SoR all the time. I would be more worried about SoR/AS unlucky streak of not hitting in a row then CS to be honest and mainly for threat when you just picked up a mob.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Sober » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:36 am

Are they finally going to remove Vindication from the tree? Every build seems to gut it more and more so there's really no point to spending the two points there when every other tank has an aoe tclap + demo shout. Not to panic or anything, but I really don't want to head into the expansion as the least desired tank class by this kind of margin.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Chicken » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:41 am

Sober wrote:Are they finally going to remove Vindication from the tree? Every build seems to gut it more and more so there's really no point to spending the two points there when every other tank has an aoe tclap + demo shout. Not to panic or anything, but I really don't want to head into the expansion as the least desired tank class by this kind of margin.
Warriors and Druids already have AoE demo shout. We still take Vindication. You can't always count on someone else doing the debuff for you.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Mutley » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:49 am

I don't see the point in HotR not applying vindication to all targets it hits though.
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Re: Build 12857 (31.8.10)

Postby Chicken » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:52 am

Mutley wrote:I don't see the point in HotR not applying vindication to all targets it hits though.
Oh I agree, I just disagree with the sentiment that it only being single target would make Vindication useless.
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