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Mentoring

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Mentoring

Postby Aedh » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:25 pm

Warcraft wrote:
Plus it would seriously help the continuity of this game. Soloing group content waters down the lore terribly.

Proof?

I enjoy soloing group stuff.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby Warcraft » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:56 pm

Aedh wrote:
Warcraft wrote:
Plus it would seriously help the continuity of this game. Soloing group content waters down the lore terribly.

Proof?

I enjoy soloing group stuff.

What do you mean, "proof"? Steamrolling lower level dungeons by yourself completely defeats the idea that you are fighting some powerful enemy that requires a whole group of heroes to cull. That is just a fact.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby Loras » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm

Aye. But it's enjoyable (for some).

I've had the chance to do it well-tuned when I was at the level needed for that content. Time for some other type of experience for a bit.

Getting the key to Karazhan is "epic" and "meaningful" and enjoyable. Doing it for 10 characters possibly is not and f*ck the lore in this case, tbh ^^
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Re: Mentoring

Postby sahiel » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:54 pm

Loras wrote:Aye. But it's enjoyable (for some).

I've had the chance to do it well-tuned when I was at the level needed for that content. Time for some other type of experience for a bit.

Getting the key to Karazhan is "epic" and "meaningful" and enjoyable. Doing it for 10 characters possibly is not and f*ck the lore in this case, tbh ^^


This. That enjoyable, epic, meaningful quest chain quickly becomes a painful eye stabbing process after a few alts.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby Rasmfrackn » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:45 pm

Needing a team to take on the Defias feels cool when you're a "weak" level 20. It makes sense that a lone dude could go back and wipe them out if he's powerful enough to, say, take on Arthas with 9 of his closest friends. In that way the lore builds up pretty reasonably, imo. We're always (at least in theory, as Samwise tries to foist on us) dealing with more and more powerful enemies as we gain levels. The day-to-day quest mobs are just un-immersive reskins of the same things to some degree, but instances and raid mobs make sense the way things are, to me.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby ulushnar » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:08 am

Warcraft wrote:What do you mean, "proof"? Steamrolling lower level dungeons by yourself completely defeats the idea that you are fighting some powerful enemy that requires a whole group of heroes to cull. That is just a fact.



Frodo would need a gang of pals. Hercules could stride right through and twat everything he meets.

If you have people on both power levels in the game, then why does it hurt the lore?
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Re: Mentoring

Postby Kelaan » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:50 am

Warcraft wrote:What do you mean, "proof"? Steamrolling lower level dungeons by yourself completely defeats the idea that you are fighting some powerful enemy that requires a whole group of heroes to cull. That is just a fact.

On the other hand, it makes you feel Totally Awesome in ways you can't imagine (if you haven't done it) to solo Zul'Gurub, or 5-man Molten Core or Karazhan. It's ridiculously fun to be able to run in there in ret gear+spec and just obliterate things. Perhaps because we have memories of doing it the Proper Way at level, and this is a bit of sweet revenge... perhaps just because it's sometimes fun to see enemies just evaporate.

Just because it's not fun for you doesn't mean it's not fun for others. Please don't try to convince them not to have fun, or try to suggest taking away their fun-having opportunities by forcing level/gear scaling in old zones.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby sherck » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:20 am

Warcraft wrote:But the current system DOESN'T make you feel more powerful. It just makes everything else feel so weak it's meaningless.


I gotta disagree with this. I am doing Loremaster right now and I can remember getting my arse handed to me time and again in Strat as a level 56/57 healer with a group of 5 at level.

While I now pretty much one-shot things as I run through for fun and frolic.

The mobs still suck...but they suck MUCH less because I am now a Hero instead of a Zero. I know they would still munch on any level 57 that got into there so I don't see them as meaningless.

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Re: Mentoring

Postby Giggitygoo » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:38 am

It seems pretty obvious where blizz might want to take this.

When you click random instance it could literally be ANY instance. From vanilla, to Cata or anything in bewtween.

This would be pretty cool for dailies, we could still earn badges and xp as we do now, and even a little reward at the end.

They can leave the faceroll option in for people who don't want to use the dungeon finder tool. i.e. boosting alts etc and job's a good un.

This seems like a sensible addition to add after we are all bored to death with the new cata instances. It's blizz's answer to a stop gap "grats on beating all the new content, we are making more for you. In the mean time have a play with the old stuff"
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Re: Mentoring

Postby PsiVen » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:56 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:Needing a team to take on the Defias feels cool when you're a "weak" level 20. It makes sense that a lone dude could go back and wipe them out if he's powerful enough to, say, take on Arthas with 9 of his closest friends. In that way the lore builds up pretty reasonably, imo. We're always (at least in theory, as Samwise tries to foist on us) dealing with more and more powerful enemies as we gain levels. The day-to-day quest mobs are just un-immersive reskins of the same things to some degree, but instances and raid mobs make sense the way things are, to me.


This. Soloing group content doesn't ruin lore at all, it just means you're that much more powerful. Heroic mode boss fights are far more damaging to lore than disproportionately powerful players have ever been. The closest this comes to bothering me is when I'm fighting a mob whose dialogue refers to multiple people in the group when it's just me.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby Arcand » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:01 am

PsiVen wrote:The closest this comes to bothering me is when I'm fighting a mob whose dialogue refers to multiple people in the group when it's just me.


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Re: Mentoring

Postby culhag » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:32 am

Giggitygoo wrote:It seems pretty obvious where blizz might want to take this.

When you click random instance it could literally be ANY instance. From vanilla, to Cata or anything in bewtween.

This would be pretty cool for dailies, we could still earn badges and xp as we do now, and even a little reward at the end.

They can leave the faceroll option in for people who don't want to use the dungeon finder tool. i.e. boosting alts etc and job's a good un.

This seems like a sensible addition to add after we are all bored to death with the new cata instances. It's blizz's answer to a stop gap "grats on beating all the new content, we are making more for you. In the mean time have a play with the old stuff"

That would be way cool !
The problem, I guess, is that it will be hard for us to manage our time if we can end up in Azjol Nerub or BRD.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby Chicken » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:43 am

culhag wrote:
Giggitygoo wrote:It seems pretty obvious where blizz might want to take this.

When you click random instance it could literally be ANY instance. From vanilla, to Cata or anything in bewtween.

This would be pretty cool for dailies, we could still earn badges and xp as we do now, and even a little reward at the end.

They can leave the faceroll option in for people who don't want to use the dungeon finder tool. i.e. boosting alts etc and job's a good un.

This seems like a sensible addition to add after we are all bored to death with the new cata instances. It's blizz's answer to a stop gap "grats on beating all the new content, we are making more for you. In the mean time have a play with the old stuff"

That would be way cool !
The problem, I guess, is that it will be hard for us to manage our time if we can end up in Azjol Nerub or BRD.
They've been reworking some of the classic dungeons so this might not be too much of an issue if Giggitygoo's guess here is correct. One of the better examples I've heard of is Sunken Temple; they've removed most of the instance outside of the central dragon part where all the 'real' bosses are. So no more troll mini-bosses, no more messing with statues in the cellar, and most importantly no more confusing mess of stairs. That should make it take not much longer than any modern instances.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby Noradin » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:43 am

Chicken wrote:
culhag wrote:
Giggitygoo wrote:It seems pretty obvious where blizz might want to take this.

When you click random instance it could literally be ANY instance. From vanilla, to Cata or anything in bewtween.

This would be pretty cool for dailies, we could still earn badges and xp as we do now, and even a little reward at the end.

They can leave the faceroll option in for people who don't want to use the dungeon finder tool. i.e. boosting alts etc and job's a good un.

This seems like a sensible addition to add after we are all bored to death with the new cata instances. It's blizz's answer to a stop gap "grats on beating all the new content, we are making more for you. In the mean time have a play with the old stuff"

That would be way cool !
The problem, I guess, is that it will be hard for us to manage our time if we can end up in Azjol Nerub or BRD.
They've been reworking some of the classic dungeons so this might not be too much of an issue if Giggitygoo's guess here is correct. One of the better examples I've heard of is Sunken Temple; they've removed most of the instance outside of the central dragon part where all the 'real' bosses are. So no more troll mini-bosses, no more messing with statues in the cellar, and most importantly no more confusing mess of stairs. That should make it take not much longer than any modern instances.


I still don't understand how everyone gets lost in there. Besides it's a sunken temple it should feel as if you need to explore it if you have nobody who knows where to go. I think it was rather well made and more interesting than newer instances. Some of those are just a line up of bosses where you spent hours running back the exact same way you came.
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Re: Mentoring

Postby PsiVen » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:24 am

It's easy to get lost because there are like 5 different "levels", everything looks alike, you have to go all the way around in the right pattern, and the stairs are unintuitive (left spiral goes all the way down, right spiral goes somewhere else, to go up the platforms you take the stairs down first...). Not hard to see why they decided to change it.

Food for thought: In City of Heroes, you can't gain experience while down-leveled but you get bonus cash (and you pay off XP debt). If higher level players could make enough gold doing old instances that it would be slightly less lucrative than doing dailies, people wouldn't mind helping out friends but you wouldn't see an insane glut of 85s rushing through low-level dungeons. The big win in my book would be for 60-somethings to be able to downlevel to ~55 for a BRD group, and still get some exp out of it. Once they got higher than say 10 levels past the dungeon, they would only get a gold bonus.
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