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That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby sahiel » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:54 pm

aranil wrote:
sahiel wrote:
aranil wrote:Most of the belf leaders don't seem to be big players or even that important.


Quite, it's not like Lor'themar had anything to with saving Aveena, avatar of the Sunwell or anything >.>


How many people actually saw that? When it was endgame, it was hard, and now people go in every once and a while. The lore around the sunwell has seemed very downplayed and not that important.

And its the belf leaders, I really can't feel anything for them, they aren't cool, or epic, or really anything. They seem like bit players in the greater theme of things.

I'd argue something similar for most leaders bar Thrall and Varian. Has Bronzebeard ever done anything at all in the entire MMO? Can he even walk? Maybe he has wooden legs! I can't think of anything... same for Staghelm or whoever it is now. The only city leaders who have anything approaching a significant presence in game imo are the two I already mentioned.
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby PsiVen » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:02 pm

aranil wrote:
sahiel wrote:
aranil wrote:Most of the belf leaders don't seem to be big players or even that important.


Quite, it's not like Lor'themar had anything to with saving Aveena, avatar of the Sunwell or anything >.>


How many people actually saw that? When it was endgame, it was hard, and now people go in every once and a while. The lore around the sunwell has seemed very downplayed and not that important.

And its the belf leaders, I really can't feel anything for them, they aren't cool, or epic, or really anything. They seem like bit players in the greater theme of things.


The Sunwell lore is quite important for Blood Elf Paladins, at least. And Liadrin still does her 2.4 speech in Shattrath regularly. But I don't remember Lor'themar having much of a role from the alliance perspective.
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Dehn » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:56 pm

Arjuna wrote:
Dehn wrote:A belfs betraying their allies isn't exactly newsworthy though, I mean its the race most famous for ditching allies in wow.

way I remembered it the humans betrayed the belfs...


1) Belfs betray the alliance and ally with the naga.
2) Belfs betray the alliance again and permanently ally with the horde.
3) Belfs betray the light and imprison a naaru.
4) Belfs betray the horde and ally with Illidan.
5) Belfs betray Illidan and ally with the Burning Legion.

It seems like Blizzard seem to think the belfs to be ally-hoppers.
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby hoho » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:46 pm

Dehn wrote:1) Belfs betray the alliance and ally with the naga.
From the wowwiki quote it seemed as if belfs offered their help to alliance but they refused. As they still wanted to defend their home land they went to others that didn't turn them away, the naga. If alliance saw that they didn't like it and imprisoned them.

Tbh, I'm kind of interested how the alliance can keep together in the first place when they have that many internal problems :P
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Sober » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:58 pm

At least it wasn't the priest that greets you when you enter the Cathedral of Light, that would've really pissed me off.
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Arjuna » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:06 am

Dehn wrote:
Arjuna wrote:
Dehn wrote:A belfs betraying their allies isn't exactly newsworthy though, I mean its the race most famous for ditching allies in wow.

way I remembered it the humans betrayed the belfs...


1) Belfs betray the alliance and ally with the naga.
2) Belfs betray the alliance again and permanently ally with the horde.
3) Belfs betray the light and imprison a naaru.
4) Belfs betray the horde and ally with Illidan.
5) Belfs betray Illidan and ally with the Burning Legion.

It seems like Blizzard seem to think the belfs to be ally-hoppers.

err, have you actually been playing the game?

belfs allied with the naga to be able to follow garithos orders, it was impossible with the small resources/forces he had been given them from the start...they did it FOR the alliance, despite that, they were jailed...

betray the alliance again? you mean they escaped from their death sentences?

KT taught them how to pull the light out from M'uru

KT has never been in the horde, only the azeroth-bound belfs joined to get the resources/manpower to be able to get out to outlands, where they realized that KT had gone sour...

KT betrayed illidan, and this was when he had already been confirmed to be a badguy by the rest of the belfs...


...need I remind you that Arthas still-alive scourge troops consists of 95% humans? Nearly all cultists/DKs you see anywhere that belong to the scourge are humans...

...so do you call the humans betrayers too?
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Passionario » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:11 am

Let's be honest for a moment. If Blizzard introduced the option to betray the Alliance/Horde and join a third Deathwing-loyal faction (complete with cookies and EVIL ponies), how many of us would take that option with at least one of our characters?
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Amanor » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:47 am

Dehn wrote:
Arjuna wrote:
Dehn wrote:A belfs betraying their allies isn't exactly newsworthy though, I mean its the race most famous for ditching allies in wow.

way I remembered it the humans betrayed the belfs...


1) Belfs betray the alliance and ally with the naga.
2) Belfs betray the alliance again and permanently ally with the horde.
3) Belfs betray the light and imprison a naaru.
4) Belfs betray the horde and ally with Illidan.
5) Belfs betray Illidan and ally with the Burning Legion.

It seems like Blizzard seem to think the belfs to be ally-hoppers.


1) Garithos' Alliance betrayed the Belves, forcing them to accept aid from the Naga, and eventually Illidan.
2) Stormwind's Alliance betrayed the Belves by sending Dwarven spies and Kaldorei agents under the guise of legitimate diplomacy, cementing their decision on who to side with: the Horde.
3) Belves felt as though the Light betrayed them in order to justify stealing it to make the most potent anti-undead fighting force -- which was also sorely needed considering the state of their homeland -- Paladins.
4 & 5) Kael's Elves, who were never a part of the Horde, were allied with Illidan. Those who betray while on their pilgrimage simply follow Kael, in which they betray the Horde and their own people. It should be noted, Kael betrayed Illidan because he felt he simply wasn't doing anything to help him or his people anymore.

TL,DR: The Belves change their allegiance when they feel their allies betray/abandon them. Which is common for several subgroups of any race.

On topic: Rommath isn't shocking at all as a traitor. Although it would have been nice for him to have more than a line or two in the Quel'delar quest chain in order to get a feel for his personality. The Archbishop on the other hand, is a nice pick.
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Baelor » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:13 am

Passionario wrote:Let's be honest for a moment. If Blizzard introduced the option to betray the Alliance/Horde and join a third Deathwing-loyal faction (complete with cookies and EVIL ponies), how many of us would take that option with at least one of our characters?

Not I. You and your evil pony will face my retributive wrath, Passionario.
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Thornir » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:14 am

Passionario wrote:Let's be honest for a moment. If Blizzard introduced the option to betray the Alliance/Horde and join a third Deathwing-loyal faction (complete with cookies and EVIL ponies), how many of us would take that option with at least one of our characters?


Being evil is fun.

But then again I'm a Catholic paladin :P
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby theckhd » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:22 am

Thornir wrote:Being evil is fun.

But then again I'm a Catholic paladin :P

What does that mean? You petition abortion clinics in your plate mail? :P

(I kid, of course. But the "catholic paladin = evil" angle does have me slightly confused.)
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Thornir » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:30 am

theckhd wrote:
Thornir wrote:Being evil is fun.

But then again I'm a Catholic paladin :P

What does that mean? You petition abortion clinics in your plate mail? :P

(I kid, of course. But the "catholic paladin = evil" angle does have me slightly confused.)


I truly am Catholic, but I'm thinking more along the lines of this:

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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:14 am

Passionario wrote:Let's be honest for a moment. If Blizzard introduced the option to betray the Alliance/Horde and join a third Deathwing-loyal faction (complete with cookies and EVIL ponies), how many of us would take that option with at least one of our characters?


Yeah definitely not.
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby sahiel » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:33 am

Passionario wrote:Let's be honest for a moment. If Blizzard introduced the option to betray the Alliance/Horde and join a third Deathwing-loyal faction (complete with cookies and EVIL ponies), how many of us would take that option with at least one of our characters?

Not I, nihilistic "lets destroy the world" ideologies aren't very appealing to me, if you win.... you lose! I'm firmly in the "let's kill all the Twilight people then have a party with scantily clad female belf dancers!" group :P
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Re: That Traitorous Bastard (Lore Spoiler)

Postby Ryyu » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:48 am

I don't know, I usually hate being the bad guy, but a renegade play though of Mass effect 2 has made me more open to the idea of evil.

I mean come on, name one Good guy who head-butts a sodding krogen.
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