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beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby RedAces » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:12 am

hey,

ok so it looks like it doesn't have a static component, yay... all you have to choose now is between 15% block and inquisition (+30% Holy damage).
So our current rotation will be CS every 6 sec, J every 9 sec, ShoR every 18 sec (if all CS hit) and a little bit AS inbetween... why exactly is this "harder" than 969 ? Oh and HW every 15 sec...

EDIT: missed 2 abilities

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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:15 am

Lumidar wrote:Image

Lumidar, how did you generate that image, if you don't mind me asking? Is there a utility that lets you make easy rotation graphics like that, or is it just Photoshop/Illustrator/etc?
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby Gaffer » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:19 am

It appears to be a simple Excel spreadsheet.
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:28 am

Ah, I should have guessed that. Never mind then, I'm pretty sure that Illustrator is still faster.
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby trellian » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:40 am

creative use of microsoft project could probably generate similar images and maybe even do it automatically for you ^^
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby RedAces » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:53 am

hey,

theck: simple OpenOffice Calc! ^^
updated Rotation... doesn't look so bad, mh ?

It runs down to
  1. ShoR (if 3 HPower and no Holy Shield up)
  2. CS (no 3 HPower)
  3. Avengers Shield
  4. ShoR (if 3 HPower)
  5. Judgement
  6. Holy Wrath
Prot Paladin Rotation 12694.png
Prot Paladin Rotation 12694.png (7.85 KiB) Viewed 496 times


If the duration of Holy Shield ends up significantly higher than 18sec, we can throw in a 2-HP-WoG after every Shield Slam (decreasing threat, but increasing survivability) ... like this:
Prot Paladin Rotation 12694.png
Prot Paladin Rotation 12694.png (12.62 KiB) Viewed 464 times


Bye, RedAces.
Last edited by RedAces on Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby Loras » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:08 am

I'm still not a happy panda with that mechanic. And I still fail to agree with the developers saying that 15% block is something useless. Sure, I'll unequip my shield every 15 seconds for 2-3 seconds on Festergut HC. I might not die, so it's not that awesome! Not to mention that it is indeed a boring mechanic. *sigh*
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby Meloree » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:09 am

RedAces wrote:hey,

theck: simple OpenOffice Calc! ^^
updated Rotation... doesn't look so bad, mh ?

It runs down to
  1. ShoR (if 3 HPower and no Holy Shield up)
  2. CS (no 3 HPower)
  3. Avengers Shield
  4. ShoR (if 3 HPower)
  5. Judgement
  6. Holy Wrath
Prot Paladin Rotation 12694.png


If the duration of Holy Shield ends up significantly higher than 18sec, we can throw in a 2-HP-WoG after every Shield Slam (decreasing threat, but increasing survivability) ... nice

Bye, RedAces.


You've got an extra red-square for CS. Remeber, Cooldowns start when the ability is used, at the start of the GCD.
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby RedAces » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:12 am

hey,

Meloree wrote:You've got an extra red-square for CS. Remeber, Cooldowns start when the ability is used, at the start of the GCD.


But I don't need 1,5s for pressing the button ... so at the start of a square I press it and for remainder of the square the cooldown ticks down ... or do I have something wrong?

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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:24 am

The reason I asked is that I'll obviously be doing some FCFS/Rotation simulations in MATLAB once the code is a little more polished. I was hoping to include a pictorial demonstration of the different rotations similar to those presented here, but I'd want it to interface with MATLAB somehow so that I can use the spell list it spits out rather than do everything manually in Excel or Illustrator.

In the end, I'll probably just end up writing a little MATLAB code to draw them if I do it, since that + Illustrator would end up being faster in the long run.
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby Meloree » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:39 am

RedAces wrote:hey,

Meloree wrote:You've got an extra red-square for CS. Remeber, Cooldowns start when the ability is used, at the start of the GCD.


But I don't need 1,5s for pressing the button ... so at the start of a square I press it and for remainder of the square the cooldown ticks down ... or do I have something wrong?

Bye, RedAces.


4s cooldown on CS means it should take up 3 squares in total - 1 green, 2 red. You have 1 green, 3 red.
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby Meloree » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:44 am

theckhd wrote:The reason I asked is that I'll obviously be doing some FCFS/Rotation simulations in MATLAB once the code is a little more polished. I was hoping to include a pictorial demonstration of the different rotations similar to those presented here, but I'd want it to interface with MATLAB somehow so that I can use the spell list it spits out rather than do everything manually in Excel or Illustrator.

In the end, I'll probably just end up writing a little MATLAB code to draw them if I do it, since that + Illustrator would end up being faster in the long run.


Well, intuitively, it looks to me like the rotation will be built around a heartbeat along the lines of

CS - J - Y - CS - X - Y (repeat), and that we won't want to change those core rotational abilities very often. Even Grand Crusader procs can always be placed AFTER the J. I use X and Y to indicate that Y spots are 1-s GCDs. The heartbeat is fully compressible, so any Y ability has to be better than having CS and J come up sooner.

So, the question is the priority on the rest of them, and I tend to think that we're going to be going with ShoR(3-stack) > AS > Cons > HW > ShoR (1/2stack) if we're willing to give up block percentage. It's always a DPS gain to use anything else over a low-stack ShoR, so the question is: even assuming that you're willing to give up the block chance, is a low-stack ShoR a DPS gain in a Y spot, or only in an empty X spot?
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby RedAces » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:49 am

hey,

I thought the CD on CS was 6 sec? aaargs-.-
http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/35395/crusader-strike/
You're right! Redoing everything brb...

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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby RedAces » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:23 am

hey,

Hopefully correct now ... ^^
Prot Paladin Rotation 12694.png
Prot Paladin Rotation 12694.png (20.12 KiB) Viewed 347 times

As you can see, even with 3-Pow-WoG and 3-Pow-ShoR we have 1 CS free ... either we refresh Holy Shield 2,5sec earlier (overlapping the buff) or we waste 1 HPower. (Or 1 CS misses^^)
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Last edited by RedAces on Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: beta build 12694 (8, 5 2010)

Postby Notorius101 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:51 am

I am sorry but personally I would like Inquisition to be unusable while Righteous Fury is up, the issue right now is people are concerned about us being balanced around it for our threat. If we can't use it while in our "tank stance" then that worry goes away and they can balance our threat around Righteous Fury. Doing this always removes the complaints of not having HS up cause it will be up every SHoR cd(3HP).
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