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Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby aranil » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:04 pm

cerwillis wrote:
Archeth wrote:I'm just wondering what could possibly be the reason to deny a single melee spec a reliable interrupt, it can't even be PvP because ret will have one, and a healer spec possibly having one isn't exactly a balance issue with shamans either. It's not even "class diversification" anymore if all but one melee specs and all but one tanks have it.

Maybe its so that people will learn to interrupt stuff instead of leaving it all to us like everything else.

fix't

the only time I feel like interputs are going off is in my guild's run, and in pugs, they only seem to go off if I'm the only one doing them on my DK, rogue, or warrior.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:12 pm

Ghostcrawler wrote:
Here is how Prot paladins are working in our current beta build. You might not see these changes in the next beta build, but in the one after that. Things are still in a high degree of flux however.

Shield of the Righteous -- Now consumes Holy Power to cause damage.

Holy Shield -- Now a passive ability that causes your Shield of the Righteous to provide 5% block per stack of Holy Power consumed. In other words, you never click Holy Shield. You just click Shield of the Righteous and buff yourself.

Hammer of the Righteous -- Now generates Holy Power but shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike. Almost all talents that affect one or the other will affect both. The intention is you use Crusader Strike -> Shield of the Righteous for single target and Hammer of the Righteous -> Shield of the Righteous for multitarget.

Avenger's Shield -- No real change, but it still hits pretty hard. Both CS and HotR can proc Grand Crusader to lower the Avenger's Shield cooldown.

Vindication -- can be caused only by Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous.

Holy Wrath -- With the above changes, we think Prot paladins have enough rotational buttons to hit, so we are downplaying Holy Wrath. Holy Wrath is really intended as a Ret filler spell (for when other attacks are on cooldown). Prot could technically use Holy Wrath, but we aren't providing any talent hooks.

Consecration -- Now on a 10 sec duration with a 30 sec cooldown. The Hallowed Ground talent makes it cheaper and hit harder -- it does not affect duration. Use Consecration when you need it, but you can't spam it. This is consistent with the AE changes we are making to all tanks.

With these changes in mind, Prot will be thinking about buttons such as these:

Single Target: Judgement, Crusader Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield.
Multi-target: Judgement, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield, possibly Exorcism.

None of this includes things like Seals, Inquisition, defensive cooldowns, Word of Glory, etc.



http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... d=2000#163
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:12 pm

I think where he said Exorcism at the end there he meant Holy Wrath
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:22 pm

Wish they'd make their minds up which are called "of Righteousness" and which are "of the Righteous".
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Ocin » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:31 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Ghostcrawler wrote:
Here is how Prot paladins are working in our current beta build. You might not see these changes in the next beta build, but in the one after that. Things are still in a high degree of flux however.

Shield of the Righteous -- Now consumes Holy Power to cause damage.

Holy Shield -- Now a passive ability that causes your Shield of the Righteous to provide 5% block per stack of Holy Power consumed. In other words, you never click Holy Shield. You just click Shield of the Righteous and buff yourself.

Hammer of the Righteous -- Now generates Holy Power but shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike. Almost all talents that affect one or the other will affect both. The intention is you use Crusader Strike -> Shield of the Righteous for single target and Hammer of the Righteous -> Shield of the Righteous for multitarget.

Avenger's Shield -- No real change, but it still hits pretty hard. Both CS and HotR can proc Grand Crusader to lower the Avenger's Shield cooldown.

Vindication -- can be caused only by Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous.

Holy Wrath -- With the above changes, we think Prot paladins have enough rotational buttons to hit, so we are downplaying Holy Wrath. Holy Wrath is really intended as a Ret filler spell (for when other attacks are on cooldown). Prot could technically use Holy Wrath, but we aren't providing any talent hooks.

Consecration -- Now on a 10 sec duration with a 30 sec cooldown. The Hallowed Ground talent makes it cheaper and hit harder -- it does not affect duration. Use Consecration when you need it, but you can't spam it. This is consistent with the AE changes we are making to all tanks.

With these changes in mind, Prot will be thinking about buttons such as these:

Single Target: Judgement, Crusader Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield.
Multi-target: Judgement, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield, possibly Exorcism.

None of this includes things like Seals, Inquisition, defensive cooldowns, Word of Glory, etc.



http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... d=2000#163


I just read this post too. Dear lord, wtf is our niche again? I'm not seeing any direction for bears or paladins.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Modal » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:33 pm

There are no tanking niches, at least not by design...

You should edit out that quote.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Modal » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:35 pm

It seems like they took to heart the idea that HS is a boring button to push and ShoR is more fun. They might as well just make HS do damage when it's cast though, rather than having a "passive" HS that modifies ShoR just for the sake of not having to "cut" either spell. That's a better description of this change than saying that ShoR refreshes HS.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:39 pm

Modal wrote:It seems like they took to heart the idea that HS is a boring button to push and ShoR is more fun. They might as well just make HS do damage when it's cast though, rather than having a "passive" HS that modifies ShoR just for the sake of not having to "cut" either spell. That's a better description of this change than saying that ShoR refreshes HS.


No, the distinction is that ShoR will go back in as a baseline spell which will sink HoPOW into damage and require shields, and then the Prot Talent Holy Shield will make that spell also increase block chance.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Sober » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:41 pm

Wait, are we losing HW applying Vindication now after every other tank has an aoe-demo shout now?
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Modal » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:45 pm

I don't understand why you started your reply with "No." I didn't misunderstand what they did, I just said that it's functionally equivalent to cutting ShoR and giving HS an instant damage component that also scales with Holy Power. There's no good reason to split it into two different "spells," one of which is completely passive.

I mean, I guess there's a distinction at low levels before you get Holy Shield (assuming you get them at different times) but... big deal. Edit: oh, you're saying that holy can use it, too, while soloing I guess. But I suppose that's just an assumption at this point anyway.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:45 pm

Modal wrote:I don't understand why you started your reply with "No." I didn't misunderstand what they did, I just said that it's functionally equivalent to cutting ShoR and giving HS an instant damage component that also scales with Holy Power. There's no good reason to split it into two different "spells," one of which is completely passive.

I mean, I guess there's a distinction at low levels before you get Holy Shield (assuming you get them at different times) but... big deal.


It's not functionally equivalent. Holy Shield is a prot talent. Shield of Righteousness is a baseline spell.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:46 pm

Sober wrote:Wait, are we losing HW applying Vindication now after every other tank has an aoe-demo shout now?


Yeah, I asked about that:

Ghostcrawler wrote:Q u o t e:
So with Vindication off of Holy Wrath, is it intended that Prot Paladins are the only tank without an AoE Physical Damage debuff, or will similar changes be made to the Warrior/Druid/DK mechanics?


Hammer of the Righteous will be AoE enough. It hits many targets. It may not be as widespread as Demo Shout on a pull like a jillion Onyxia Whelps, but we don't really expect you to debuff pulls of that size.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Minarva » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:47 pm

Am I the only one that things we now don't have enough going on? I thought these changes were to add complexity, but now it seems we will only have 4 buttons to push for most fights. Seems a tad like complexity is being reduced (even if 969 was not difficult).
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Minarva wrote:Am I the only one that things we now don't have enough going on? I thought these changes were to add complexity, but now it seems we will only have 4 buttons to push for most fights. Seems a tad like complexity is being reduced (even if 969 was not difficult).


Well with the old rotation we had 5 buttons to push, and we pushed them in the same order all the time. Now we have a bunch of buttons to push, and we push them some of the time, with various deciding factors to determine which is the best choice at any given time.
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Re: Shield of Righteousness possibly going away

Postby Modal » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:52 pm

Sabindeus wrote:It's not functionally equivalent. Holy Shield is a prot talent. Shield of Righteousness is a baseline spell.


It's functionally equivalent as a part of prot's toolkit, which I thought was the subject. And it doesn't really give holy or ret any meaningful extra options, either. They might as well make ShoR a level 10 prot ability (and we're just assuming that they won't, at this point).
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