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[10H] Lich King

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[10H] Lich King

Postby patches » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:07 am

My 10 man has been working on Heroic Arthas for a little bit (we focused on getting our drakes then had some attendance issues and only just started on him despite clearing all 4 heroic wings a few weeks ago)

What we're concerned about, especially given the limited amount of time we have on him (we get together to raid after our 25man raid, so we only go about an hour or two a few nights a week) that we might just be spinning our wheels with a melee heavy group comp.

We had about 10 or so attempts and were barely getting to phase 2, I know this is to be expected since hard arthas is, well, hard. But given that we didn't even see phase 3, we're not sure if we need to start stacking range like the Adept video or if we can get away with what we have.

We were just getting 3 shambling horrors in phase 1, pushed him over to the transition about 20 seconds or so after the 3rd on spawned. Sometimes I'd still have the plague bouncing around sometimes I wouldn't, resulting in a wipe if I didn't manage the plague well. It hadn't occured to me until last night to bounce the plague to a friendly target to buy some time for a ghoul to spawn.

We run a very solid/talented group that blew through hard mode content

prot pally
prot warrior
fury warrior
ret paladin
unholy/frost (i think) dk
demo lock
fire/arcane mage
disc/holy priest
resto shammy
resto druid

Will this group be viable for 10 man heroic arthas? what changes should we make? I know the lack of MDs and tranqs is pretty glaring, but we've been dealing so far.
Is it viable in 10 to soak spirits in phase 3 or do we need to burn them down?
will 2.5 dps (seed/livingbomb/holy priest mind sear) be enough to brun down spirits inside frostmourn?

Further, is there a specific spec I (prot pally) should be using for this? Imp HoJ? Or can I stick with my standard 53/18?
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby Meloree » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:50 pm

I highly doubt that comp is viable at 10%. For one thing, your bare minimum DPS benchmark for P1 is beating the 3rd horror. Generally this is done by 2-healing, with near-perfect buff synergy for your 6 dps. The only way to 2-heal this encounter at this buff level (that I'm aware of, maybe someone will prove me wrong) is disc priest/holy paladin. With only 2 healers, not having Tranq will probably kill you.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby Belloc » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:04 pm

Stunning during the enrage cast will prevent the enrage from going off (at least on normal). This can be done pretty reliably.

But, yeah, the 3rd horror is somewhat of a deal breaker.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby patches » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:36 pm

Yeah that's what i was afraid of.

The ret paladin has a good holy offset, so we can try disc priest holy paladin, switch the shaman to elemental, and swap the tree out for a hunter or rogue probably, depends on who is available

we'd have to get replenishment somewhere, probably a shadow priest for one of the melee

but thanks for the responses!
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby Meloree » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:48 pm

Belloc wrote:Stunning during the enrage cast will prevent the enrage from going off (at least on normal). This can be done pretty reliably.

But, yeah, the 3rd horror is somewhat of a deal breaker.


No. They just immediately recast enrage after the stun wears off, in my experience. Better to free up your GCD when you see enrage casting, and stun immediately after the cast completes.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby Belloc » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:10 pm

I've never had that happen to me... but, again, this is on normal mode. (I frequently use my holy wrath to interrupt one of the enrages and use my hammer to interrupt the other)
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:49 pm

The only way to 2-heal this encounter at this buff level (that I'm aware of, maybe someone will prove me wrong) is disc priest/holy paladin.


Not entirely true. Several guilds have done fine with a really good druid or resto shaman in place of the paladin. The disc priest is not optional, but the tank healer slot is more flexible than people make it out to be.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby Meloree » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:00 pm

Joanadark wrote:
The only way to 2-heal this encounter at this buff level (that I'm aware of, maybe someone will prove me wrong) is disc priest/holy paladin.


Not entirely true. Several guilds have done fine with a really good druid or resto shaman in place of the paladin. The disc priest is not optional, but the tank healer slot is more flexible than people make it out to be.


Hrm, you're right, there's 4 parses on WoL that 2-heal without disc/paladin, and 2 that 3-heal. That's fairly impressive. I didn't think there was room to 3-heal at 10%, they must have some really impressive DPSers for the 3-heal parses. Also, pretty amazing druids/shamans.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:41 pm

Well, you'll recall that paragon said it was completely doable with 2 healers at 0% buff level, so logically it doesn't seem unreasonable that you could drop a DPSer for another healer at 10% buff level as long as your healers help out a little bit on the valks if a DPSer is picked up.

I'd say that's one of the cooler things about being a resto shaman; that you can actually contribute non-terrible DPS assistance in a pinch while healing speced and geared.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:47 pm

Hmm. Haven't started working on this fight yet, but my primary healers have been a resto druid and shaman, with either a disc/holy or holydin for the occasional 3rd.

The 2-healer requirement is to free up a DPS slot for the Valk cycle, yes?
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby Treck » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:56 pm

A paladin is nice, but the only times a paladin is superior imo is in p1, and at the start of P3/P5 since you usually have a raging spirit up at those times. For the other times i find the other healers just as good if not better, a shaman brings inspiration (or whatever its called) and even if you bring a discpriest its hard keeping that up at your tank at all times.
If your soaking all the spirits (and doing it right) i dont see that much problem using 3 healers tbh. Id prolly recoment a meele heavy setup for that tho, since its a lot easier dpsing while kiting the boss for them compared to casters.
If nothing else it will give you more training in the later phases. Sure you need some impressive dps in the other phases.
Im a bit impressed of the druid managing to be the tankhealer for this in a 2healer situation, disc/druid.
We went with mostly ranged but didnt burn the spirits down all the time. So our comp doesnt make that much sense, but it worked. And we were about 10sec before enrage on our kill. Could easily bring him down with a lot more time on the enrage if we wanted and would do it perfect.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby cds4850 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:27 am

Off the top of my head, I know Gentlemens Club of Korgath-US two healed their first kill with a disc priest and resto druid. They have two great videos on youtube from the resto druid PoV, certainly worth a look.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby maurok » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:27 pm

my group is going to start trying LK 10H this week, but from what I saw on the parses, I think our dpsers are a little behind on what we need, they do an average 9.5k dps on fights like saurfang and festergut.
Our 25m kind of suck, so we haven't killed the Lich King on normal 25 yet (so no 277 for us :( )

how much dps ppl should be pulling in average on those sort of fights so I know we actually have a real shot on LK 10H ?
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby chinoquezada » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:37 pm

maurok wrote:my group is going to start trying LK 10H this week, but from what I saw on the parses, I think our dpsers are a little behind on what we need, they do an average 9.5k dps on fights like saurfang and festergut.
Our 25m kind of suck, so we haven't killed the Lich King on normal 25 yet (so no 277 for us :( )

how much dps ppl should be pulling in average on those sort of fights so I know we actually have a real shot on LK 10H ?


Before switching to full-time prot a couple of months back, I was pulling 10.5k on Saurfang/Festergut with 251s/264s.
Your raid is either missing buffs or your dps are slacking.
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Re: [10H] Lich King

Postby maurok » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:00 pm

we actually use our offspecs a lot, and we have 11 players on the group (which we try to rotate on the progression bosses looking for the best possible setup), but I think that at least the casters are really well buffed... we have:
- 1 pally prot / holy (me)
- 1 pally ret / prot (usually our offtank)
- 1 druid balance / feral(tank)
- 2 druid resto / balance
- 1 shaman resto / enhance
- 1 priest shadow / disc
- 1 rogue
- 1 lock demon
- 1 lock destru/affli
- 1 mage arcane/fire

besides the poor rogue, the other dpsers are fine... and are doing around 9.5~10k dps...

my question is if this is enough dps for LK 10H , or if we should wait and farm more gear and/or wait for the 15% buff
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