[25H] The Lich King

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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Boyfriend » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:46 am

What loses value on this fight is armor, compared to usual tanking (for Add Tank/Soaker) as it's only useful for the short times you're tanking LK.

Stamina is still useful throughout the whole encounter; thus trading stamina for dodge is a bad call, generally you just don't want to value armor as high (It's still good, just I wouldn't use things like twin valks ring over DW ring a 32 ilevel difference)

And if you do Phase1 properly there is 0 RNG involved, avoidance just helps because it can cover for mistakes (which in reality just happen)
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Felyndiia » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:26 am

Would you say that matching socket bonus of +6 and +9 stam with def/stam and agi/stam gems would be worth it for someone doing your same job in LK?


I recommend Stamina because of the heavy unavoidable dmg from Valkyrs, Raging Spiritis, Vile Spirits and Sacrifice (lol).

On a side note: If someone summons an army of the dead during vile spirits are up, the ghuls will taunt the spirits and keep them stacked at one point. That's lame :D
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:02 am

chinoquezada wrote:
Felyndiia wrote:Edit: I didn't tank in armor gear, I used the avoidance/HP 277 stuff.



Would you say that matching socket bonus of +6 and +9 stam with def/stam and agi/stam gems would be worth it for someone doing your same job in LK?

Moreso, considering that all the other fights are so lol at 10% that you can do them with threat gear on (save sindragosa and maybe festergut)


LK is overtuned based on the zone wide buff. So your still going to want to max stam for him.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Gaffer » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:01 pm

7 Kills; 7 non-US Horde kills. Someone break the trend :\
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Treck » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:36 pm

From wowprogress:
8 Premonition (r) US-Sen'Jin 12/12 (H)
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Absalom » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:28 pm

Have to say that progression on this has been one of the most fun and challenging fights as a protection paladin that I've encountered in my career. In particular, I love how much our role changes with each phase and how it pushes us to make the most out of all our abilities to achieve success.

Somewhere down the line, I made a list of what was required and it turned out like this:

General:
- Aura Mastery, then Divine Guardian for infest.

Phase 1:
- Tank Shambling Horrors and ghouls.
- Cleanse necrotic plague.
- Cooldown and stun (wrath, HoJ) during frenzy.

Transition:
- Grab raging spirits that spawn at range.
- Cleanse our feral tank from silencing shriek.

Phase 2:
- Taunt Lich King and rotate cooldowns for Soul Reaper applications.
- Stun 1 of 3 valkyrs when they spawn. (For me, it was always the second.)
- Holy wrath them all once initial stuns wear off.
- Righteous Defense our ret pally for residual Valk aggro.
- Fang on cooldown when alternate cooldowns are available for reaper.
- Like everyone else, place and avoid defile!

Phase 3:
- Pop vile spirits with rotated cooldowns.

Frostmourne:
- Raid cooldowns (i.e. infest cooldowns) where appropriate.
- Hand of reckoning, avenger's shield, holy wrath wicked spirits when possible.

It's unfortunate we didn't kill it at 10%. We had only 1 warlock on our roster up until last week; once we found more, we consistently started seeing the final phase and probably would have downed him with another round of attempts, which is probably why our kill was so bittersweet. The extra 5% this Tuesday really made the fight much more forgiving in all respects, ranging from bad play to missed cooldowns to basic raid composition.

Congratulations and great respect to those who paved the way before us (especially those guys over at Paragon) and good luck to everyone still working on the fight--go get your Light of Dawn titles!
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:08 pm

Cuties Only killed it with 6 healers and a Combat rogue dead for phase 2 and 3, to give some perspective on how the DPS requirement has lessened.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby cds4850 » Fri May 07, 2010 8:46 am

1. How many aura masteries are required to cover every infest, six? We ran with one to two ret paladins, two to three holy, and one prot all spec'd into aura mastery but we were falling short of covering them all (seemingly by a small margin, hence my assumption six AM are needed.)

2. What healing comp are you finding most succesful? As mentioned prior in this thread, we found resto druids less than idea for the spikey nature of damage in this encounter. However, we switched both raiding holy priests to disc for infest coverage and really felt as though we could have benefitted from two additional holy priests for CoH. Our comp was 2 or 3 holy paladins, 1 or 2 resto druid, 2 disc priests. (We utilized the third holy paladin as ret and a second resto druid as boomkin for a few attempts just playing with the comp.)

Damage is impressive, and a missed aura mastery or un-shielded raid member are incredibly noticable.

Also, one of our largest challenges was to get fury warriors to tunnel on LK damage rather than adding cleave damage to phase 1 meters. Towards the end of the night one warrior had accumulated 44% of his total damage out on ghouls, and thus, only had an effective damage output of 56% of what recount showed. Breaking some DPS habits provides an interesting, yet frustrating, challenge.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Joanadark » Fri May 07, 2010 9:13 am

With current buff levels, you don't NEED an AM for every infest, though it is certainly helpful. Particularly when a Disc Priest is picked up by a valk prior to an infest. Remember that you can use Divine Guardian as an alternative to an AM, so the number of AMs you take in your comp is flexible. Its the number of raid COOLDOWNS that is important.

The best thing I can suggest is to sit down and look at your group compositions and actually plan out how each group gets healed for infest. Think about it the same way you would plan out groups for leeching swarm healing on heroic Anub'arak.

Put all your DKs in a group because they should be able to AMS Infests, along with feral druids who take 30% less damage from AOE already. There you go, a whole group covered. Your healers will be able to know they can ignore that group. Set up what group the Holy Paladins are going to focus on Holy Light bombing and the raid healers will be able to ignore that one too.
Since normal HoT-spamming by the resto druids isn't enough, try having them focus on a single group and maybe roll HoTs in addition to timing Lifebloom stacks. Figure out how much healing the druid has to do to beat the infest (e.g. Is a rejuv plus a 3-stack Lifebloom Bloom enough? Is a Regrowth HoT needed too?) and then extend that out to as many people as the druid can cover. It probably wont be very many, but at least it's another group that the Priests can then not worry about.
Have your hybrids help you if you still struggle. The enhance shamans can Maelstrom Weapon Chain Heal (and in fact this is something we had them do in quite a few difficult progression fights). Stack the Shadow Priests all in one group for stacked VE and have them get improved VE to cover themselves. Shadow Priests can also Divine Hymn when Bad Things happen, like a raid healer getting picked up. Boomkins can Tranquility. Ele Shamans can throw a Chain Heal or two into the melee pack. The Ret Paladins can Art of War FoL themselves right as infest goes out.

There's a lot of stuff you can do to counter Infest. You just need to have a Plan.

Also, one of our largest challenges was to get fury warriors to tunnel on LK damage rather than adding cleave damage to phase 1 meters. Towards the end of the night one warrior had accumulated 44% of his total damage out on ghouls, and thus, only had an effective damage output of 56% of what recount showed. Breaking some DPS habits provides an interesting, yet frustrating, challenge.


Make it clear to DPS that they have a job to do. They are just as much responsible for success as the healers and tanks, and this isn't a fight they can just be spectators competing for a Record Parse.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby cds4850 » Fri May 07, 2010 11:26 am

Breaking it down to a "party focused" frame of reference does seem to simplify things. Man how this expansion has made me forget about party comp...

That being said I'll revisit stacking DKs into a party to rotate AMS (unholy DKs are the only spec with this, correct?)

Putting our elemental shaman on chain heal duty into the ranged group for infest is a good idea as well.

I also noticed during this encounter how significant the increased healthpool sizes are. It's not just a matter of tank survivability in this case. Having melee DPS approaching 45k HP certainly adds wiggle room to a lot of the encounter.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby fafhrd » Fri May 07, 2010 11:49 am

Minor observation, keeping deepwounds up on ghouls from hitting them with whirlwinds or the occasional cleave is more single target dps on LK, since it increases 2pcT10 uptime (and is in fact the only way to increase that uptime, since nothing else would make deepwounds tick more often on a single target, other than reducing your crit rate), which increases single target DPS. They shouldn't be spamming cleaves continuously though (since aside from the infest issues it might lead to, cleaving means not HSing which means fewer BS procs, meaning less single-target DPS to LK).
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby cds4850 » Fri May 07, 2010 12:08 pm

fafhrd wrote:Minor observation, keeping deepwounds up on ghouls from hitting them with whirlwinds or the occasional cleave is more single target dps on LK, since it increases 2pcT10 uptime (and is in fact the only way to increase that uptime, since nothing else would make deepwounds tick more often on a single target, other than reducing your crit rate), which increases single target DPS. They shouldn't be spamming cleaves continuously though (since aside from the infest issues it might lead to, cleaving means not HSing which means fewer BS procs, meaning less single-target DPS to LK).

Thanks for mentioning that there are other buffs to keep in mind here.

The observation that caused concern was that one fury warrior was doubling the second on total damage out. Upon reviewing recount data, the top damage fury warrior had less damage on LK than the lower DPS warrior. The LK portions of their total damage out were significantly different (54% versus 66%), leading me to believe that the "meter padder" was intentionally running a cleave rotation in place of a single target one.
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Tbev » Sun May 09, 2010 8:25 am

I'm a DK tank for my guild and our current plan is to go with a DK/Warrior comp for this fight. I've been toying around with spec ideas and decided on just plain ole blood. But I am considering grabbing http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49005, and wanted some input. We will only be able to field 4 aura masteries, so my thought process is that this talent could be useful to use for those infests where we don't have an AM. Is the point worth it to help get over that hump or is it a negligible difference?
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Valerus » Tue May 11, 2010 4:32 am

Joanadark wrote:2. The Fire Mage. Fire would presumably be a better choice for the encounter than arcane because of the ability to living bomb all 3 valks, and because arcane would have severe mana issues over the 15 minute long fight.


Actually Fire scales better than Arcane with the ICC buff :D After the 10% buff it pulled ahead in overall DPS.
Thank you Den :D
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Re: [25H] The Lich King

Postby Rhiannon » Tue May 11, 2010 12:49 pm

Eh? What's different between fire and arcane that scales differently with the buff? As far as I know ignite doesn't double dip (otherwise righteous vengeance, deep wounds would). Fire is a very competitive spec due to recent changes and fight mechanics, nothing to do with the scaling buff afaik.
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