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[25H] Sindragosa

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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Joanadark » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:04 am

Sindragosa has parry haste enabled and when i looked at logs, i have seen 4 parry hasted unavoided hits in a row. 4x 25-30k hits with 1.2 sec speed, taking roughly 120k damage from only melee swings in less than 5 secs is insane.


A note about this;
If you do tank swaps like most people do (tanks on opposite sides and the boss pivots in place 180 degrees when they taunt off), then parry hasting the boss is a serious concern for your melee dps. Its very easy for them to be scared of tail smash and overcompensate too far forward. If you have a feral druid dps (ferals physically cannot use attacks except from the rear of a target, and thus are a good indicator of proper placement), encourage your other melee dps to use them as a guide and stack on them.
We had SIGNIFICANTLY more wipes due to tank death from parry haste gibs right after a tank-transition than we ever lost tanks to a frost breath.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby pfunkmort » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:28 am

I've been rawring it up, because the tankadin spreadsheet is so fail right now, and you're at 550 or so Fr, with the enchants to cape and helm, the ony ring and head, and the Fr BS chest, boots and belt. If you add the crafted ring, you're at 620 Fr. However, in current gear, putting in the titanium frost ring makes reaching crit cap so hard, you're better off just using chest, boots and waist, to reach 65% mitigation from frost resist and staying at ~57k hp, 35-36k armor buffed, and ~40% avoidance. According to wowhead, the max frost breath damage is 53750? iirc, and so with the 65% redux, it ends up hitting for approx. 18.9k max - even less with AM. at 57k hp or more (rawr doesn't have a way to include the strength or wrynn - so for that I'm using napkin math), an 18.9k hit is very doable, and using more Fr by using the crafted frost ring makes you gem so much extra def to stay at cap that you won't be able to keep your HP or armor high enough to keep the melee from being a real threat.

meloree is using the T10 264 legs - so a little more stam than my setup - and a couple other pieces (the 264 kraken, as opposed to my t10 264 gloves, etc), which ups his overall HP a little, but I'm using a spread that looks like THIS (with a resist flask), and I think it's the most durable that I have access to, considering the def restrictions I have to meet for the fight.

http://www.mediafire.com/?jwnznhzog5j

(it's a file to open in rawr - using the latest version)

...sorry for the typos, and sorry again, if I'm offending meloree...I just thought with the research I was doing, I'd give people what info I had.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Meloree » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:10 am

Frost breath damage in hardmode starts at ~70k, not 55k.

Generally speaking, I wasn't gearing for P1, I was gearing for P3, where it doesn't take much going wrong to suddenly be staring a 150k frost breath in the face. Given Trase's commentary, 335 FrR is obviously sufficient. I'd suggest that 510 is a more reasonable gearing goal. More doesn't suck, depending on what you're giving up for it.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby pfunkmort » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:01 am

I have two questions meloree, if you'd indulge me (no sarcasm meant, I'm just trying to think about it).

one. how'd you get to 620 Fr without wearing chest, boots, belt, AND ring? In my current rig, with the ony helm and ring, and all the frost resist stuff, aura, helm/cloak enchants and flask, I get to like 552, and then the ring puts me at 620. is that what it is? or is there some other frost resist that I'm not taking into account?

two. what does sindi hit for? like melee swing. I only ask, because from a P3 perspective, I'm trying to figure out how much damage I can eat with my gear from a high MB frost breath, and still be able to survive a melee swing.

again, thank you so much for all the info you've given about the fight, but, just some strings I'm trying to hash out.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Treck » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:09 am

I went with 510 Frostress unbuffed. This includes: Head 10+ench 25, backench 20, Chest,belt,boots,ring Crafted, Onyxia 25man ring 30, and LW bracer enchant 70 =510, then buffs+flask, should be around 680? then
Now this might seem a bit overkill, but atleast the Breaths were a nonissue.
You wanna have some form of CD whenever you swap tanks, im not sure what she hit for, but it was a lot. 2hits and you were in a pretty bad situation.
GS or just a shielwall when you swap tanks to ensure they survive the first few sec when healers are swapping targets.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Meloree » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:58 am

pfunkmort wrote:one. how'd you get to 620 Fr without wearing chest, boots, belt, AND ring? In my current rig, with the ony helm and ring, and all the frost resist stuff, aura, helm/cloak enchants and flask, I get to like 552, and then the ring puts me at 620. is that what it is? or is there some other frost resist that I'm not taking into account?


I wore chest, boots, belt, AND ring. Plus Ony ring and helm, and helm and cloak enchants. I'm not a leatherworker like Treck.

two. what does sindi hit for? like melee swing. I only ask, because from a P3 perspective, I'm trying to figure out how much damage I can eat with my gear from a high MB frost breath, and still be able to survive a melee swing.


Sindragosa melees and cleaves for a high end of ~33k on 36k armor. She has a pretty wide swing range, though, I'd say the median hit-size is closer to 28k.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Wrathy » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:47 am

Stoneblood flask or resistance flask? Personally I dont have the ony ring or helm, Alchemy will save me once again, I swear it will...
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Meloree » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:01 am

Wrathy wrote:Stoneblood flask or resistance flask? Personally I dont have the ony ring or helm, Alchemy will save me once again, I swear it will...


Ony helm is only 10 resist it just happened to be a hat I wasn't using for anything that I could stick FrR and and magic damage meta in. Really any helm will do.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Treck » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:50 am

Meloree wrote:Ony helm is only 10 resist it just happened to be a hat I wasn't using for anything that I could stick FrR and and magic damage meta in. Really any helm will do.


Id prolly even prefer anotherone, if i had the badges and a token for it, id take another T10 head and stick the frostress ench on it tbh, those 10resistance isnt superior to such an upgrade imo.
The ony head is good even so.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Wrathy » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:11 pm

I'm still conflicted about getting a 251 helm, even with out the token upgrade and gemming and enchanting it for the fight. I have enough badges, and was only really saving up for the dress (legs) and chest for when i have enough 277 emblems. I see places where any combination of T10 pieces will benefit, Threat, EH, etc.

I want to go through some parses this weekend to see what the trade off is for the 2% armor increase to 2% magic reduction metas would get me, but my suspicion is that armor will still trump it just because of the chance of a combo attack of magic debuf plus back to back melee, when healers are distracted.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Meloree » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:15 pm

Wrathy wrote:I'm still conflicted about getting a 251 helm, even with out the token upgrade and gemming and enchanting it for the fight. I have enough badges, and was only really saving up for the dress (legs) and chest for when i have enough 277 emblems. I see places where any combination of T10 pieces will benefit, Threat, EH, etc.

I want to go through some parses this weekend to see what the trade off is for the 2% armor increase to 2% magic reduction metas would get me, but my suspicion is that armor will still trump it just because of the chance of a combo attack of magic debuf plus back to back melee, when healers are distracted.


The armor increase is significantly more damage reduction over the course of the fight. I lean towards the magic damage meta because, again, P3 is the scary part (for our strat, anyway).
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby pfunkmort » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:20 am

thank you once again, meloree. given what you said, I have to revise my napkin math for the fight, but I think it will ultimately prove productive to do so. now it's just a matter of keeping my hp and def up using that fourth piece of fr gear.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Ulrik » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:51 pm

So I put on the set with 485 FR I'm normally doing 10 mode easy/hard in and got spammed with 40k hits. How are you wearing any FR without dying 30 sec in from physical?

We tried again and I just threw on full armor set to not die in p1. Guess I'll hope CD's are enough to rng through breaths. Or perhaps go full armor with just the FR ring and boots? There's no boosted armor boots and only one armor ring (that I don't have) so I'm loosing the least there.

It's like they boosted the physical so much to discourage resist sets. I don't see how you're not getting flattened.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Thels » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:32 am

If http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t44675-resi ... ics_wotlk/ is right, and it probably is, then you might want to gear for at least a 340 or 510 minimum.

At exactly 510 resistance, you resist 40%, 50% or 60%. Taking more than 510 resistance reduces the chance on 40% in favor of 70%, so RNG might help you a bit there, but no guarantees. Meloree with 620 Frost resistance will take as large magical blows as someone with 510 resistance will. He will however take them less often.

You can already get to 510 with craftable boots, belt, chest, ring and 1 of the 2 ony rings (10 man puts you at 510 exactly, 25 man puts you at 515).

Both ony rings are preferable, though, since they give loads of armor as well, and quite a bit of defense, which should help the hassle around the crit immunity. With dual ony ring, and the 3 craftables, you reach 472 frost resistance, requiring another 38 resistance to cover.

Possible enchants:
Bracers (LW only): 70 resist - Costing you 102 sta.
Head: 30 sta, 25 resist - Costing you 7 sta, 20 def rating.
Back: 20 resist - Costing you 225 armor/22 agility/16 def rating.
Legs: 10 resist - Costing you 55 sta, 22 agility.
Chest: 8 resist - Costing you 275 hp/16 def rating.
Hands: 8 resist - Costing you 18 sta/240 armor/10 parry rating, 2% threat.
Feet: 8 resist - Costing you 22 sta/15 sta, 8% speed.
Shield: 8 resist - Costing you 18 sta/20 def rating.
Shoulders: 7 resist - Costing you 30 sta, 15 res rating/20 dodge rating, 15 def rating.

Possible consumables:
Lesser Flask of Resistance: 50 resist.
Flask of Chromatic Wonder: 35 resist, 18 all stats.
Broiled Bloodfin: 8 resist, costing you 40 sta, 40 str.

Onyxia helm: 10 resist.
- Taking the 264 Broken Ram Skull Helm with sta/agi gem as a comparison item, that would be 136 armor, 5 sta, 46 str, 10 agi, 18 def rating, 30 dodge rating. It would net you 1 hit rating.
- Taking the 251 Tier Helm with that same sta/agi gem as another comparison item, that would be 43 armor, 67 str, 10 agi, 68 parry rating. It would net you 23 sta, 14 defense rating, 2 dodge rating, 75 hit rating.

So, if you have any decent 264 item, the Onyxia helm is probably not worth it. However, when you want to re-gem/re-enchant your gear, the Onyxia helm might be a better alternative than buying yourself a 251 tier helm, if you happen to have one. Note that with the Onyxia helm and head enchant, you're still 3 points short of 510.

Other items would be greens or the Vanilla/TBC craftables, all of which give a huge dump in stamina, armor and other tanking stats. The Alterac Valley badge gives 10 resistance, which doesn't qualify replacing so much as the Heroic Azjol'Nerub trinket.

Void Sphere: 4 resist. Even in the best possible spot, this would still cost you 18 stamina and 10 of def rating/hit/agi. In the Onyxia helmet, it would cost 30 sta and net you 8 hit rating, but would bring you to 511 frost resistance, which might be an option if enchanting a spare item would cost you more than that.

Easiest solution to cover the last 38 frost resistance is probably the Lesser Flask of Resistance, though a Flask of Chromatic Wonder would be a better solution, if you could combine it with an easy enchant on a double item that has a poor enchant on default, like gloves or shield.

If you have a decent spare helm and cloak, then enchanting those with frost resistance is probably saving you the trouble of using separate flasks, and allows you to use the magic resist metagem.
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Re: [25H] Sindragosa

Postby Mikerk » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:02 am

Meloree wrote: Do not be fooled by P1. The melee damage is intense, and dangerous, and you will be tempted to drop frost resist for avoidance and armor. This is probably a mistake.


We learned this first hand.. a 38k melee and then a parry hasted 42k melee swing following that. It was just nuts. We only did about 3 pulls on heroic and the tank would die before the first air phase each time. Flipped it to normal and just moved on for the week and will revisit again next week. Very intense fight for tanks though
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