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[25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

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[25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Meloree » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:49 am

It's all on your healers.

We used 8 healers for our first kill, and 7 for subsequent kills. We send 3 healers up - their only job is to maintain their stack no matter what, and DPS the boss.

Shaman, Paladins, and Druids are excellent choices to send up. Priests are not.

For DPS and tanks, hardmode is the same as easymode. There's a little bit more DPS required, but not much - you're basically killing the same adds in the same order.

Tips:
Find a way to not let frostbolt volley happen - ever. It drains mana from everyone it hits.

Priest Wings on boss is win. Time your LoH on boss with this. 150k LoH crits might not help all that much, but it makes you feel good. Make your priests be Holy... trust me.

If your healers can't maintain their stacks of the buff - you lose. If they can - you win. I have no tips for doing this, I've never "gone upstairs".

EDIT: Given that the other thread discusses mobs that don't need to be tanked, I should clarify. In hardmode, you need to tank everything that isn't a skeleton or suppressor. Frost mages will one-shot DPS, Zombies aren't naturally slow anymore. They're still slowable, and technically kiteable, but it's easier to just round 'em up with the rest.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Avengeance » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:55 am

We did 2 tank 7 healer on first kill, and we kept 2 holy pala outside to do all the raid healing, the 4 remaining healers consisting of priest/druids/shaman/pala takes the portals. At the end of the fight the 2 holy pala outside acutally did same amount of healing on the boss as the healers who went in (Beacon ftw).

Make sure both sides of the room has a MD or TotT (for abom worms), and a stunner/kicker or 2 for lich. Pala tanks are probably best choices coz of AS interupt, HoJ, Holywrath and BE racial, so you can solo lock out a lich.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Belloc » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:29 am

Avengeance wrote:We did 2 tank 7 healer on first kill, and we kept 2 holy pala outside to do all the raid healing, the 4 remaining healers consisting of priest/druids/shaman/pala takes the portals. At the end of the fight the 2 holy pala outside acutally did same amount of healing on the boss as the healers who went in (Beacon ftw).

Make sure both sides of the room has a MD or TotT (for abom worms), and a stunner/kicker or 2 for lich. Pala tanks are probably best choices coz of AS interupt, HoJ, Holywrath and BE racial, so you can solo lock out a lich.

Beacon of light on Valithria + Tank standing in Glyph of Holy Light range + Portal stacks = glyph of holy light splashing the boss for 150k while the holy light itself is hitting for 200k. I'd be surprised if the paladins outside could match that.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Avengeance » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:48 am

Except the palas inside have about 50% heal time on the actual boss, while the palas outside have 100% uptime.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Belloc » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:11 am

I'm aware of that... but I don't think you're aware of just how effective that extra glyph splash can be. It's a bit more work to have tanks hanging in that range, but it makes the fight go by a lot faster.

I'm guessing that you probably aren't even having that effect happen -- I don't think most groups do. The positioning required isn't exactly intuitive.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Argali » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:55 am

Avengeance wrote:Except the palas inside have about 50% heal time on the actual boss, while the palas outside have 100% uptime.


Heal time is irrelevant. This may be incorrect, but I've been told that the cloud buff is multiplicative, not additive i.e. with 3 stacks you get 133% more healing.(1.1*1.1*1.1).
Even if the stacks are additive, once you get enough stacks, the healing buff will outweigh the reduced healing time.

Shamans and HL glyphed paladins are the best healers to send inside, simply because they benefit from the healing buff twice.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Meloree » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:01 pm

Yeah. Druids, though, load up great big hot stacks that keep ticking while they're taking portals. Their peak HPS isn't the same, but the amount of healing they do is very competitive. It might not be strictly optimal to send a druid, but it's close enough that if you have a rockstar druid up against a mentally impaired paladin, you aren't gimping yourself to send the druid.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Avengeance » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:37 pm

I know about the glyph's double dipping with the buff, but fact is 2 pala healer can keep the whole raid (tank) up outside, leaving you to send more inside, the net healing on the boss you end up is probably the same. You'd probably need 3 non-pala healers outside to keep things up, leaving u only 4 taking portal, while my way we have 5 in the portal.

In fact, the only reason we went this method was because on 10H we wiped ages by sending sham and pala into the portal, leaving a priest outside for tank healing, and tanks kept dying - so we changed it around with pala healing outside and the priest and sham went in, and then we 1 shotted. We just transferred this principle into 25 and it worked.

The only way to compare is how fast you finish the fight with both methods - we kill at around 5 min.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Meloree » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:44 pm

We actually found better results by sending 3 up. When more went up, they tended to get in each others way, and cause buff-stacking/falling problems. Admittedly, we developed this strat before the orb "nerf"/fix, which has made things markedly more repeatable - we haven't wiped since - and it may be optimal to send up more now.

That said, kill times are still in the 5 minute range recently (6:00ish, pre nerf)

My experience may be outdated now, we've just seen no reason to change.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Xequecal » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:56 pm

A very effective way to make healing the boss on this easier is to have a hunter summon a pet with Blood of the Rhino and just put it on stay on top of the boss. Paladins can beacon it and Shaman can splash AA off it. It adds another ridiculous multiplier to Paladin/Shaman splash heals.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby fafhrd » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:55 pm

Xequecal wrote:A very effective way to make healing the boss on this easier is to have a hunter summon a pet with Blood of the Rhino and just put it on stay on top of the boss. Paladins can beacon it and Shaman can splash AA off it. It adds another ridiculous multiplier to Paladin/Shaman splash heals.


We tried this this week, the pally doing it said it didn't work as far as he could tell.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r44z ... 468&e=7769 is the attempt, Vanifae is the pet, and I think Ambiguous was the pally trying it. I don't really know what to look for in the logs to confirm/deny that claim, although he definitely did have Holy Light glyphed, which is as I understand it the only part that gets the double benefit.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Xequecal » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:40 am

fafhrd wrote:
Xequecal wrote:A very effective way to make healing the boss on this easier is to have a hunter summon a pet with Blood of the Rhino and just put it on stay on top of the boss. Paladins can beacon it and Shaman can splash AA off it. It adds another ridiculous multiplier to Paladin/Shaman splash heals.


We tried this this week, the pally doing it said it didn't work as far as he could tell.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r44z ... 468&e=7769 is the attempt, Vanifae is the pet, and I think Ambiguous was the pally trying it. I don't really know what to look for in the logs to confirm/deny that claim, although he definitely did have Holy Light glyphed, which is as I understand it the only part that gets the double benefit.


It was definitely working for us in 25-man on Monday. Remember the first heal number that pops up on the initial heal on the pet will be 40% higher than normal, there's no "regular" heal to compare it to if the only thing you heal is the pet. I'm not sure how you would definitively demonstrate it on a WoL parse, especially since overhealing is not recorded. Still, one of your Paladins managed 43k HPS on a 5-minute kill, I highly doubt this would have been possible without bouncing heals off the pet.

Also, why does one of your Paladin healers register Beacon of Light and Glyph of HL heals, while the other Paladin registers no Beacon heals and no Glyph of HL? The second Paladin somehow got over 40k HPS overall without Beacon or Glyph being recorded.

The easiest way to determine whether it was working is to look at the actual combat log. Look at the first few HL heals on the pet, before any portals are entered. From those numbers you can easily tell if they're increased 40% or not. (and if the Beacon numbers are also 40% increased)
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Avengeance » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:32 am

As far as I know, the beaconed target do not receive bonus healing of whatever your direct heal target has (including Demonic Armour warlocks). It seems the bonus of the said target only applies to the target only (makes sense), and subsequently the glyph of holy light or any side effects are not affected by its bonus healing of Demonic armour or pet.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby pfunkmort » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:50 am

it...would have to be a pretty amazing druid and a pretty fail paladin to make that sub. our main paladin did like 24mil healing on one of our attempts iirc. we used 8 healers, and THREE tanks on our kill, and we only had like two wipes, which were mostly just early stupid stuff. We used one tank per side, and then a peel tank for aboms, so that the zombie debuff wouldn't let the worms from a dead abom one shot a tank. We had plenty of dps to burn everything down with that setup, and it was VERY VERY stable because of the extra healers/tanks. mage per side with slows on suppressors helped, another mage with slows/roots on the worms coming out on the abom tank let the worms get burned down before they really did ANY damage on the abom tank.

tank on left pillar between the doors, tank mirrored on the right, abom tank on the V on the ground in front of valithria...the other two tanks would pick up and kite the aboms to his range, if they came out the back doors. We had minimum of two interrupter dps focused on frost mage casts, which made healer mana a non-issue. Set interrupters for the pull - one per add, and keep them from casting frostbolt volleys.
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Re: [25H] Valithria Dreamwalker

Postby Boyfriend » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:59 am

fafhrd wrote:
Xequecal wrote:A very effective way to make healing the boss on this easier is to have a hunter summon a pet with Blood of the Rhino and just put it on stay on top of the boss. Paladins can beacon it and Shaman can splash AA off it. It adds another ridiculous multiplier to Paladin/Shaman splash heals.


We tried this this week, the pally doing it said it didn't work as far as he could tell.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r44z ... 468&e=7769 is the attempt, Vanifae is the pet, and I think Ambiguous was the pally trying it. I don't really know what to look for in the logs to confirm/deny that claim, although he definitely did have Holy Light glyphed, which is as I understand it the only part that gets the double benefit.


Code: Select all
[22:04:49.576] Ambiguous Holy Light  Vanifae +200 (O: 35724)
[22:04:50.387] Ambiguous Glyph of Holy Light Valithria Dreamwalker +9404
[22:04:50.387] Ambiguous Beacon of Light Valithria Dreamwalker +35924


It definately worked, but I think the hunter did not have the talent that increased healing recieved by his pet. (I have no idea how the hunter side of this trick works though, but the holy light heal on the pet is supposed to be higher than the beacon heal)

Code: Select all
[22:04:52.481] Ambiguous begins to cast Holy Light
[22:04:52.838] Ambiguous Holy Light  Vanifae +*300* (O: 50831)
[22:04:53.589] Ambiguous Glyph of Holy Light Valithria Dreamwalker +13385
[22:04:54.112] Ambiguous begins to cast Holy Light
[22:04:54.506] Ambiguous Holy Light  Vanifae +900 (O: 31877)
[22:04:55.196] Ambiguous Glyph of Holy Light Valithria Dreamwalker +6255


And after that point Ambiguous let Beacon drop from Valithria, and kept healing the pet; without beacon it's obviously very inefficient, he has to keep beacon up.

The code to show this information in the log browser was:

Code: Select all
[{"spellNames": ["Glyph of Holy Light"]}, {"spellNames": ["Holy Light"], "sourceNames": ["Ambiguous"]}, {"spellNames": ["Beacon of Light"], "actorNames": ["Ambiguous"]}]
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