[10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Kihra » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:02 pm

This log from heroic 25 Saurfang is what convinced me that absorbs still work to stop BP gain.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7 ... 105&e=7311

We have perfect play on the first two marks.

Here's the first mark analysis:

Code: Select all
[21:54:17.141] Deathbringer Saurfang gains Blood Power from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:19.148] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Imperialelf 45 (A: 4611)
[21:54:19.156] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa Absorb (4559)
[21:54:19.156] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc Absorb (4850)
[21:54:22.156] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Imperialelf 4656
[21:54:22.156] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa Absorb (4559)
[21:54:22.157] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 1779 (A: 3071)
[21:54:24.644] Deathbringer Saurfang begins to cast Blood Nova
[21:54:25.206] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Imperialelf 4656
[21:54:25.207] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa 4410 (A: 149)
[21:54:25.208] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 4850
[21:54:26.760] Deathbringer Saurfang Blood Nova Caruga 12397
[21:54:27.086] Deathbringer Saurfang casts Boiling Blood
[21:54:27.251] Walkrboh afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:27.251] Therequiem afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:27.252] Valen afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:28.154] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Imperialelf 4656
[21:54:28.154] Imperialelf's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:28.155] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 4850
[21:54:28.155] Xmc's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:28.155] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa 4559
[21:54:28.155] Odessa's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:30.281] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Therequiem Absorb (5917)
[21:54:30.281] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 5917
[21:54:30.285] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 4734
[21:54:33.245] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 5917
[21:54:33.245] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Therequiem 856 (A: 5061)
[21:54:33.249] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 4734
[21:54:33.437] Deathbringer Saurfang casts Rune of Blood on Wiingman
[21:54:33.577] Wiingman afflicted by Rune of Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:34.640] Deathbringer Saurfang casts Boiling Blood
[21:54:34.893] Yumii afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:34.893] Terp afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:34.893] Beteljuse afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:36.195] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Therequiem 5917
[21:54:36.195] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 5917
[21:54:36.200] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 4734
[21:54:37.891] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Yumii 7432
[21:54:37.891] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Terp Absorb (6742)
[21:54:37.891] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Beteljuse 5394 (A: 1348)
[21:54:39.347] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Therequiem 5917
[21:54:39.348] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 5917
[21:54:39.352] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 4734
[21:54:40.941] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Yumii Absorb (7433)
[21:54:40.941] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Terp 4648 (A: 2094)
[21:54:40.941] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Beteljuse Absorb (6741)
[21:54:42.223] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Therequiem 5917
[21:54:42.224] Therequiem's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:42.224] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 5917
[21:54:42.224] Walkrboh's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:42.229] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen Absorb (4733)
[21:54:42.229] Valen's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:43.548] Deathbringer Saurfang begins to cast Blood Nova
[21:54:43.839] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Yumii 5675 (A: 1403)
[21:54:43.839] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Beteljuse 3718 (A: 3024)
[21:54:43.840] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Terp 6741
[21:54:44.694] Deathbringer Saurfang casts Boiling Blood
[21:54:44.900] Walkrboh afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:44.900] Odessa afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:44.901] Xmc afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:45.571] Deathbringer Saurfang Blood Nova Chiral 16264
[21:54:46.926] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Terp 6742
[21:54:46.929] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Yumii 7079
[21:54:46.929] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Beteljuse 5394 (A: 1348)
[21:54:47.807] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh Absorb (8827)
[21:54:47.808] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 8827
[21:54:47.808] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa 8297
[21:54:49.802] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Yumii 7078
[21:54:49.802] Yumii's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:49.802] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Terp 6741
[21:54:49.803] Terp's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:49.803] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Beteljuse 5393 (A: 1348)
[21:54:49.803] Beteljuse's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:50.115] Deathbringer Saurfang begins to cast Mark of the Fallen Champion


There are 36 Boiling Blood hits that are unabsorbed and 9 that are absorbed. There are two Blood Novas that go out (does he still gain BP from the one Blood Nova target or only from splash?). No beast hits occur. No Rune of Blood ticks occur.

Therefore we have:
36 Damaging BB Ticks.
9 Fully Absorbed BB Ticks
2 Blood Novas

Assuming 3 BP per BB tick, you can see how that got to 100 when the last set of ticks happened. The other option is to assume 2 BP per BB tick, that absorbs don't stop the gain, and that Blood Novas give him BP even when they only hit the one target. These are the only two possibilities.

But now look at the second mark.

Code: Select all
[21:54:50.848] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 8827
[21:54:50.857] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 8818 (A: 9)
[21:54:50.857] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa Absorb (8297)
[21:54:51.997] Deathbringer Saurfang's Blood Power fades
[21:54:53.192] Deathbringer Saurfang gains Blood Power from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:53.595] Deathbringer Saurfang casts Boiling Blood
[21:54:53.982] Trends afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:53.983] Kaetzchen afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:53.983] Valen afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:53.991] Wiingman's Rune of Blood fades
[21:54:53.999] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 8827
[21:54:54.000] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc Absorb (8827)
[21:54:54.001] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa 7759 (A: 539)
[21:54:55.149] Deathbringer Saurfang casts Rune of Blood on Kihra
[21:54:55.505] Kihra afflicted by Rune of Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:54:56.743] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Trends 5494
[21:54:56.744] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Kaetzchen 5723
[21:54:56.750] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 3719 (A: 859)
[21:54:56.916] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 8827
[21:54:56.916] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa 8298
[21:54:56.917] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 8818 (A: 9)
[21:54:59.812] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Trends Absorb (5494)
[21:54:59.813] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Kaetzchen 5723
[21:54:59.817] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 4579
[21:54:59.904] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Walkrboh 8827
[21:54:59.904] Walkrboh's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:59.906] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Odessa 8297
[21:54:59.906] Odessa's Boiling Blood fades
[21:54:59.906] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 8827
[21:54:59.907] Xmc's Boiling Blood fades
[21:55:01.543] Deathbringer Saurfang begins to cast Blood Nova
[21:55:02.745] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Trends 2152 (A: 3342)
[21:55:02.746] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Kaetzchen 5723
[21:55:02.751] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 4578
[21:55:02.825] Deathbringer Saurfang casts Boiling Blood
[21:55:02.997] Therequiem afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:55:02.998] Xmc afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:55:02.998] Caruga afflicted by Boiling Blood from Deathbringer Saurfang
[21:55:03.675] Deathbringer Saurfang Blood Nova Caruga 15194
[21:55:05.715] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Trends 2382 (A: 2563)
[21:55:05.721] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 4578
[21:55:05.721] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Kaetzchen Absorb (5723)
[21:55:05.890] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Therequiem 7857
[21:55:05.890] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 7857
[21:55:05.891] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Caruga Absorb (7857)
[21:55:08.745] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Trends 4944
[21:55:08.745] Trends's Boiling Blood fades
[21:55:08.747] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Kaetzchen 2610 (A: 3113)
[21:55:08.747] Kaetzchen's Boiling Blood fades
[21:55:08.752] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Valen 4578
[21:55:08.752] Valen's Boiling Blood fades
[21:55:08.994] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Therequiem Absorb (7857)
[21:55:08.995] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Xmc 7857
[21:55:08.996] Deathbringer Saurfang Boiling Blood Caruga 6878 (A: 979)
[21:55:10.919] Deathbringer Saurfang begins to cast Mark of the Fallen Champion


There are only 27 unabsorbed Boiling Blood ticks, 6 absorbed ticks and the 1 Blood Nova. If you assume only 2 BP per tick, then even including absorbs, we're nowhere close to 100 BP gained before the second mark went out. If you assume 3 BP per tick, then you get much closer, but you have to include absorbs.

Basically I've been completely baffled regarding his BP gains, since these two marks are wildly inconsistent, and yet we played perfectly. It sure looks to me like absorbs stopping BP gains are the only explanation for how we dragged out the first mark.

Here's the query string I am using for those who want to check out the Log Browser.

[{"spellNames": ["Blood Power"]}, {"eventTypes": [1], "sourceNames": ["Blood Beast"]}, {"spellNames": ["Boiling Blood"]}, {"spellNames": ["Rune of Blood"]}, {"spellNames": ["Blood Nova"]}, {"eventTypes": [2], "sourceNames": ["Blood Beast"]}, {"spellNames": ["Blood Power"]}, {"spellNames": ["Mark of the Fallen Champion"], "eventTypes": [6]}]
Kihra
 
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:01 pm

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Kihra » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:37 pm

From Darksend on TankSpot:

"As of when my guild killed him this week there was a bug where instead of gaining 2 BP for it, if the target was shielded and fully absorbed he would actually gain 5 BP."

That might explain the discrepancies I've been seeing in logs (and in the example above).
Kihra
 
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:01 pm

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:55 pm

Argali wrote:
Joanadark wrote:
Argali wrote:Apparently bloodlust is optional in 10 mans.

I beg to differ, but it's what blizz said.


blizz says some stupid things sometimes.


No matter how stupid, it's being said by the people making the game. And the fact that bloodlust is "optional" in 10 mans was said in response to why such a powerful buff like bloodlust is only available from 1 class, and what happens if you don't actually have a shaman for 10's.

Just do hard modes without bloodlust. It's "optional" after all.


Well, you definitely can do hardmodes without bloodlust - we did all the togc10 HMs, about half the icc10 ones and the later ulduar10 ones without a shaman, but probably only because we had 25 man gear to carry us. I can't believe that the fights would be at all fair for a 10 man strict raid without heroism, but Blizzard's response would be 10 man strict isn't part of their game and they don't need to balance around it. If you don't assume that people overgear content, I can't imagine anyone saying "heroism is optional" with a straight face. With that assumption though, it is.
ImageImage
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
User avatar
fafhrd
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Meyrinn » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:16 am

This fight seemed buggy last week. He kept gaining lots of BP from Rune of Blood and tanks were getting yelled at that we were being too slow. But we weren't. It looked like he was gaining BP when he was hitting me, though the offtank had the debuff. It got to the point that the tanks decided to tank him from opposite sides so he would turn around when taunted to show the others we were taunting fast enough. Even after he turned around, there would be 2 or 3 ticks of BP gain from Rune of Blood. Its obvious cause they are huge jumps in BP. It was horrible. We had to start predicting the cast and pretaunting to get 1 or no ticks of BP from RoB. We had 4 marks go out last week before we killed him and it was painfully hard.

This week it didn't seem to have the same issue. We got the first mark at 48%, and the second at about 8%. He only had 2 ticks of RoB healing in the logs on the kill this week. Last week it was 25 to 30 ticks of RoB Healing. The tanks didn't get that much faster in one week.
Meyrinn
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:03 am

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Akairoslol » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:49 pm

Our group consists of mostly melee with a hunter and a mage as ranged DPS, we 2 heal with a resto shaman and Disc priest. Our main strategy for 10m HM saurfang is to stretch out the time between the start of the fight and the first mark as possible. Our 2 tanks are me (a paladin) and a death knight. The first blood boil we heal as normal, putting preemptive shields on everyone to limit the runic power saurfang gets. For the second blood boil I BoP the person. By about this time saurfang is at about 80-85% with about 1-10 runic power.

When the first 2 beasts spawn, we have mage and hunter get immediate agro. Rogue and enhance shaman are on the mage target and warrior and feral druid are on the hunter target with a chains and stuns applied to both targets, ensuring maximum time in one spot for melee dps and to prevent any risk of feeding saurfang bloodpower.

By about 40-50% we get our first mark, we have to hope and prey it goes onto a melee, because 90% of the time, saurfang decides to be an asshole and put it on a hunter or mage. If a healer gets it, then run into the melee to be chain healed. Our priest spends this time prayer of healing.

We bloodlust at 30% (frenzy) and burn as fast as possible.
Our raid comp is
blood dk
tankadin
feral
arms
restoshamm
disc
Marks
Arcane
Enhance
Mutilate

tips: if the rogue is fast, he can vanish the mark on him.

Hunters can feign just before to avoid it.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary, and those that do not.
Akairoslol
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:42 am

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby fafhrd » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:48 pm

Akairoslol wrote:tips: if the rogue is fast, he can vanish the mark on him.

Hunters can feign just before to avoid it.


:O
ImageImage
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
User avatar
fafhrd
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Belloc » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:56 pm

Akairoslol wrote:Our group consists of mostly melee with a hunter and a mage as ranged DPS, we 2 heal with a resto shaman and Disc priest. Our main strategy for 10m HM saurfang is to stretch out the time between the start of the fight and the first mark as possible. Our 2 tanks are me (a paladin) and a death knight. The first blood boil we heal as normal, putting preemptive shields on everyone to limit the runic power saurfang gets. For the second blood boil I BoP the person. By about this time saurfang is at about 80-85% with about 1-10 runic power.

Once again, shields don't prevent BP gain.
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Avengeance » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:58 pm

After the 5% raid wide buff, it's even possible to kill him in 1 mark with 2 tank 2 healer setup. Use some HoPs on the first 2 bloodboils and profit.
Avengeance of Boulderfist-EU
Guild Master of High Tempest
Avengeance
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:30 pm

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Vandril » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:16 am

fafhrd wrote:
Akairoslol wrote:tips: if the rogue is fast, he can vanish the mark on him.

Hunters can feign just before to avoid it.


:O


Yesterday our rogue vanished the mark, we cheered at him first but a second later DBS put it on another target.

8[
User avatar
Vandril
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:16 am

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby pfunkmort » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:58 am

someone mentioned here that mark damage can't be mitigated by armor. can anyone confirm this? some of the tanks in my guild seem adamant that it can actually be lessened by armor, as they have it only pushing them for like 5-6k vs other classes that have a much harder hit from it. If it can't be mitigated, maybe it's from all the absorbs, and talents that mitigate damage, as opposed to say, a mage. but, if anyone can clear it up for me, it might save me from having to dole out indestructibles to the raid next week.
Image
[2.Trade][Alessan]: Is WoW becoming an online kart racer in 4.0.3?
[2.Trade][Tehron]: Yes
User avatar
pfunkmort
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:11 am

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Belloc » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:04 am

pfunkmort wrote:someone mentioned here that mark damage can't be mitigated by armor. can anyone confirm this? some of the tanks in my guild seem adamant that it can actually be lessened by armor, as they have it only pushing them for like 5-6k vs other classes that have a much harder hit from it. If it can't be mitigated, maybe it's from all the absorbs, and talents that mitigate damage, as opposed to say, a mage. but, if anyone can clear it up for me, it might save me from having to dole out indestructibles to the raid next week.

Keep in mind that mark damage also increases and decreases based on Saurfang's current blood power.
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Serv » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:08 am

Besides Vanishing, rogues can feint on cooldown to lower the mark damage significantly.
We killed him the second time yesterday on 10man heroic, again with a 2tank 2 healer setup and without a holy paladin. Unfortunatly the marks went out to our enhancer and our rogue so HoP was not an option, but raidwall twice at 80-100 bloodpower helps a lot.
Image
Thanks to LAVE for the sig

www.rent-a-tank.net ...:::... www.nil-gilde.net
Serv
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:50 am

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Anorian » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:57 am

Killed him last night after failing horribly last week. The only thing we changed was swapping our disc priest for a shaman. Seemed to us that shielding makes him gain way more blood power. Can't confirm it but it definitely seemed so last night.
Image
User avatar
Anorian
 
Posts: 361
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:38 am

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Belloc » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:09 am

Serv wrote:Besides Vanishing, rogues can feint on cooldown to lower the mark damage significantly.
We killed him the second time yesterday on 10man heroic, again with a 2tank 2 healer setup and without a holy paladin. Unfortunatly the marks went out to our enhancer and our rogue so HoP was not an option, but raidwall twice at 80-100 bloodpower helps a lot.

I'm not going to outright deny your feint info, but I am going to question it.

Our rogue reported that feint did not reduce his damage taken. Upon looking at his death report, I saw no hint that any damage had been halved, as it would have if feint were working.

Saurfang's mark is, for all intents and purposes, a dot applied to individual players. It's best comparison, as far as debuffs go, would be Anub's Leeching Swarm, which was certainly not affected by Feint, despite the fact that it was hitting everyone in the raid.

Long story short, I'm confident that feint does not, in fact, do anything on this fight. I don't have logs, but I did look at the death report of a player that was using it.

(Once again, what you may have seen as feint was probably Saurfang simply being at low BP at the time).
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang [Heroic]

Postby Akairoslol » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:55 pm

Shields don't mitigate bloodpower gain from bloodboil? Didn't know that.

The vanish bug was fixed. :( same with feign death, but you can still do either/or premptivly at like 98/99 bloodpower to avoid being on his list of people to mark. (I would assume)

As for rogue using feint, think of mark as a giant bleed, ie; a dot, feint doesn't work as far as I know.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary, and those that do not.
Akairoslol
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:42 am

PreviousNext

Return to T10: Icecrown Citadel

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest