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[25H] Lady Deathwhisper

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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby chinoquezada » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:49 pm

Also, to add on the ghosts topic.

Since the explosion is an AoE effect, it only takes for one person to screw to wipe an entire area.
I would recommend being very vocal to whoever makes this mistake as it is the biggest wiper in this fight.
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby pfunkmort » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:12 am

well...there are a number of ways to look at this fight, and a number of strategies. Instead of the "don't do that using that strategy, I did this and it worked for us so it's better" crap which is mostly arbitrary and doesn't really address FAILINGS in the various strategies presented, I think a better way to look at this, in a constructive manner, would be to simply and objectively look at the various strategies and experiences posted here independent of each other (unless there's something flagrantly wrong).

We started off using a form of strat similar to the picture posted on the last page, only we had the center be X on both sides, keeping ranged trained on left, and melee on right. burning down the middle one meant they couldn't get their shield up before dying, and we could then rely on ranged killing fanatics (even with shields) and melee killing adherents (even with shields). We did this mainly because our dps was a little low and we felt we could help overcome that with a synergy of buffs. melee buffs buff melee, ranged buffs buff ranged, etc. You could probably get away without doing that. We found that it was a much more manageable strat, and also a MUCH cleaner transition, but, ultimately, left us with so little time in p2 as to push enrage. So we changed to the aoe strat on the stage for p1. which usually only let us see 3 add spawns before the push, using one tank on the left looking out with DK lolgrab for the two adherents, and various other kicks on the right side to keep adherent(s) coming in, and the remaining two tanks picking up and holding them and the fanatics. You could probably two tank that phase, but, it gets annoying when a deformed comes up and we did it with three. P2, we originally tried the premo way of a warr tank kiting fanatics until the kill, but found too much rng in slows being available, etc, so, we just pulled the hunters off the boss in p2, and had them help burn the add spawns, and it was enough to get the one side down before the next came up.

Frost resist is a fantastic idea to add redundancy to survivability, and depending on what the kick situation LOOKS LIKE in your raid, you might consider it. All in all, staying together in a long slow methodical p2 is the hardest part of this fight, as some bad add pickups, or ghost issues, or missed CCs on MC targets, can very quickly wipe you (and it's like a 4-5-6 minute phase).

also, on another issue mentioned here - I had to check to make sure (I remember we had 3 hunters who had to map out silencing shot from their macros so they could use it in a pinch on vezax hm)

from wowwiki:

# Patch 3.2.0 (2009-08-04): This ability will also apply a 3 second interrupt effect against non-player controlled targets, making it more versatile against creatures immune to silencing effects.
# Patch 3.0.2 (2008-10-14): This spell will now interrupt the current spell being cast on the target and lock out that school for 3 sec if the target is immune to silence effects.
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby Meloree » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:14 am

Belloc wrote:So... all the suggestions that her Frostbolt is not affected by resistances are bullshit? I'm getting tired of misinformation. We'll tranq.shot heroic Icehowl all we want, thank you very much.


Frostbolt has been resistable since day one. The Icehowl thing was actually true for a little while.

Either way, there's different strategies for the fight, and for some of them Frost Resist might not be optimal, for some of them it's very useful. For our strat, I solotank Deathwhisper, in full Frost Resist gear. The Rogues and Hunters are almost completely responsible for the threat ceiling, so while the rogues do some interrupting, they pool energy before tricks, and don't kick during tricks. They also don't worry too much if they have to move from ghosts. If she puts D&D under herself, HoJ is enough to move her.

(Edited in the 2nd paragraph, might as well be on-topic)
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby Blitzago » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:32 pm

Meloree wrote:
Belloc wrote:So... all the suggestions that her Frostbolt is not affected by resistances are bullshit? I'm getting tired of misinformation. We'll tranq.shot heroic Icehowl all we want, thank you very much.


Frostbolt has been resistable since day one. The Icehowl thing was actually true for a little while.

Either way, there's different strategies for the fight, and for some of them Frost Resist might not be optimal, for some of them it's very useful. For our strat, I solotank Deathwhisper, in full Frost Resist gear. The Rogues and Hunters are almost completely responsible for the threat ceiling, so while the rogues do some interrupting, they pool energy before tricks, and don't kick during tricks. They also don't worry too much if they have to move from ghosts. If she puts D&D under herself, HoJ is enough to move her.

(Edited in the 2nd paragraph, might as well be on-topic)

This is pretty much the same strat we use, but we have a warrior solo tank, with me(pally) picking up adds. with 2 hunters and 3 rogues, threat is usually fine, especially with 4 pallies or so with salv and other threat drops.
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby guillex » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:40 am

Alright, just because I'm not around all the time doesn't mean that you guys are allowed to jump down each other's throats.

Thank you for taking care of it in a civilized manner... Everyone needs to calm down a bit before posting. There's a reason that the PREVIEW button exists. Read your post before hitting Submit. Hell, go over what other people have said before hitting Submit. You're allowed to SAVE your post, too. ;)

Let's all take a breath.
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25H Lady Deathwhisper

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:06 am

We must be doing something catagorically wrong, because my raid can't even get into the meat of this fight. People start dying when the shield's at 10%, and things quickly spiral out of control.

The second time we got to P2 perfectly she up and despawned. I don't even know.

We split dps left/right. I tank left side, pulling fanatics to the rear left corner so I can also cover the rear spawn if necessary; usually the 3rd tank handles it and we group up for cleaveage. The left adherent is stun-tanked by DPS. The bear goes right side with some DPS. I'm not clear on what he's doing, but he has a tendency to get overrun.

I've heard a lot of people position on the stage to get more cleave damage on boss. How does positioning adherents work in this case? The pillars are LoS, so in theory healers could pillar hump and draw adherents into the fray?

Isn't there more danger from D&D from being grouped up so tightly, or do you just set up in camps and the entire camp shifts position? I assume there's something I don't understand or am overestimating, since people do use this positioning.

During P2 last week we had a DK tank, some dps and a healer form a death squad to handle adds in P2, but the DK got eaten. I was going to do it this week, but we never even got a clean P2 transition, so don't know if that's viable at all.

It bothers me that we're failing so catastrophically on this fight. I don't think the raid is entirely incompetent (we're 8/12), but for some reason we can't perform for LDW.
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Re: 25H Lady Deathwhisper

Postby cds4850 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:45 am

We adjusted our original strategy (a similar adaptation of what you use) into one which brought the adds to the stage to utilize melee cleave. This took a lot of work but resulted in MUCH shorter phase 1. Also, depending on your P2 strat, I'd imagine that you would be the better choice to tank her, as you can bubble off your 5stack debuff to stretch your threat lead.
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Re: 25H Lady Deathwhisper

Postby inthedrops » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:11 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:We must be doing something catagorically wrong, because my raid can't even get into the meat of this fight. People start dying when the shield's at 10%, and things quickly spiral out of control.


What's causing the deaths? Is it MC people killing people? If so they need to be handled QUICKER. Is it MC'd people actually dying from all the AoE? If so, do what we do and have ALL melee vacate the AoE area a couple seconds before MC goes out again, CC the MC'd person, then get back in.

I've heard a lot of people position on the stage to get more cleave damage on boss. How does positioning adherents work in this case? The pillars are LoS, so in theory healers could pillar hump and draw adherents into the fray?


We position in between the pillars, but closer to one than the other. We don't worry about cleaves hitting boss. It hasn't been necessary. Sounds like you and I have the same job (I grab left side as viewed from entering her room). I take the melee adds over to the tank grabbing the right side adds. There we AoE them to death. The third tank who tanks DW grabs the one from the back.

When bringing my new adds over, melee knows to back out so they don't get cleaved when I'm bringing them in. I literally walk them from where the closest one spawns right across the path between the boss and the two pillars. In other words, if you're standing there you're going to get hit. So people don't stand there.

We also have a hunter dedicated to taunting and kiting the Deformed Fanatics. That's the only thing that will kill tanks who don't pay attention.

Additionally, I get an MD on my side (although it's really not necessary). And so does the other add tank. The other add tank (who has to handle two casters) used the pillar to LoS them in the AoE pile. He also gets MD's on one or both of them, I'm not sure.

Isn't there more danger from D&D from being grouped up so tightly, or do you just set up in camps and the entire camp shifts position? I assume there's something I don't understand or am overestimating, since people do use this positioning.


I think you're over estimating how much DPS is required to do this strategy. Look at our strat for example, we have melee leaving the AoE pile under three scenariors: A MC coming soon, me bringing new adds in, or a Death and Decay on the pile. Even with those three things going on we always catch up again with the adds. Sure, we might have a few still alive when the next set spawns but they will die with the new adds and you'll be caught back up.

When Death and Decay gets in the AoE pile, we just move over to the other side of the pillar until it's gone. It slows down DPS a bit but it's not overly dangerous.

It bothers me that we're failing so catastrophically on this fight. I don't think the raid is entirely incompetent (we're 8/12), but for some reason we can't perform for LDW.


It's a hard fight. We did it with the 5% buff when it first came out, we were learning it the week before. We started on LDW before doing Saurfang because we lost some Holy Paladins and wanted the kill to help with recruitment.

Soon enough P1 will be super easy. Just keep practicing. It wasn't instantaneous for us either. I remember the first night I sat so another tank could do it they wiped a LOT trying to adjust for the minor differences in tank experience, class, and just the fact that the raid knew exactly what I was doing and he didn't do the exact same thing (too many nuances to communicate to him, he is a DK).

P2 is the hard part unfortunately. Unless you're lucky and your raid is REALLY good at avoiding ghosts without a lot of practice expect to wipe more there than you ever did in P1.

8/12 is no small feat, but LDW and Sindragosa are a very noticeable jump in difficulty for the first kill. Our last kill had a 2 minute and 26 second P1 followed with a 4 minute and a couple seconds phase 2. Our first kill was no where near that quick for P2.
Last edited by inthedrops on Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 25H Lady Deathwhisper

Postby d503 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:12 pm

We always did normal "on the stage," but after a few attempts of lack of focus for any of the targets, we thought we'd split things up a bit.

So we have 4 DPS FULLTIME on the mana shield (feral druid, warlock, high dps mage, Moonkin) and then we split the rest of the raid onto either of the sides. We have two hunters, one on each side, to deal with Deformed kiting. In P1, we request that all magic dps (including mana shield) focus on reanimated fanatics and deformed, to burn them down quickly. This usually gets us into p2 with about 6m left on the enrage timer.

In p2, we literally did it with all of 8 DPS on the boss. 2 hunters, 2 mages, 2 rogues 1 'lock and a Ret Paladin. We chain salv'd the Ret, and the others used their aggro dumps. The rest of the DPS was on adds.

Communication is the key in p2. I tanked her at the bottom of the stairs where you enter her room. We had the ranged that was on her spread out on those stairs. We call ghosts for 4 different areas: Ghost Stairs, Ghost LDW, Ghosts Adds, and Ghosts Middle (for the middle of the room where healers and ranged on adds are).

We got her down after a handful attempts at that point.

Good luck to you!!!
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Re: 25H Lady Deathwhisper

Postby heuvarius » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:07 pm

We used the split sides strat for our kill, but we actually split the DPS into 4 groups and prioritize single target burst with liberal use of stuns. Focus fire is the key to split dps method as adds will heal to full if they get buffed by LDW.

Right side group is all melee and our bear grabs the middle fanatic and tank it on top of the left Adherent. We stun the Fanatic as soon as he casts Vampiric Might, and a DK grips the other Adherent onto the pile for max cleavage.

I tank left side with a ret plus casters and we stun->kill the middle Adherent the moment he spawns before he puts a reflective shield up.

A hunter + mage takes care of the back add and tanks chain stuns on Adherents if one spawn.

There's 2~3 remaining unassigned ranged DPS that we sit on the boss most of the time and they keep an eye for reanimated Fanatic from the right and Deformed Fanatic on all sides, although most of the time the only thing they have to worry about is a deformed fanatic on the left side.
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby guillex » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:31 am

Just a heads-up guys (and gals):

THIS THREAD IS NOT LOCKED.

I stepped in earlier to quell a bit of nastiness that was going on... But this thread is most definitely still open. Please continue discussion of 25H LDW here.

I've also merged and cleaned up the other thread that fuzzygeek had started on the same topic, with this one.

Thank you all.
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby Kroda » Wed May 05, 2010 11:03 am

Meloree,

how does the kite tank avoid getting slowed by frost bolts? Are pallies chain HoF?

we're going to give the kite strategy a try next week, we couldn't get her down this week. Any other advice for the kite method?

thanks!
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby Belicia » Wed May 05, 2010 12:04 pm

Kroda wrote:Meloree,

how does the kite tank avoid getting slowed by frost bolts? Are pallies chain HoF?

we're going to give the kite strategy a try next week, we couldn't get her down this week. Any other advice for the kite method?

thanks!


We found it fairly easy to do this:

Phase 1 - have everyone except three melee (a rogue, feral druid, and ret paladin) kill all the adds. Once adds are dead, DPS can help out on the mana shield. For MCs, 1) assign 5-6 people to be in charge of CC'ing and have them spread out around the room, 2) make sure everyone uses DPS CDs whenever they are available (getting MC'd + popping a DPS CD = bad). We also asked melee to move away from each other when the MC was about to go out, to avoid cleaving each other to death.
Phase 2 - have a melee "death squad" (we used three warriors + a DK) cleave down the adds during Phase 2. We actually ended up using two tanks on the spawning adds. We had expected to use two tanks swapping on LDW in Phase 2, but with the number of MD's we had in the raid (3 hunters + 1 rogue) it was trivial for our tank to stay at the top of the threat list.

The adds in Phase 2 were never a problem. They always died in time. The only problem we had was the combination of Frostbolt Volley + exploding ghost.
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby Meloree » Wed May 05, 2010 12:33 pm

Kroda wrote:Meloree,

how does the kite tank avoid getting slowed by frost bolts? Are pallies chain HoF?

we're going to give the kite strategy a try next week, we couldn't get her down this week. Any other advice for the kite method?

thanks!


One of our holy paladins was basically the kite-tank's personal cleanse-bot for all of P2. He made sure he was always in range to cleanse, and prioritized that when aoe frostbolts went out, otherwise healed as normal. Also, one of our warlocks went Destro to be able to AoE stun "when stuff went wrong" (normally due to MC wierdness).

That said, we've moved back to a glass-factory strat. At 15%, this fight has really been neutered. Frostbolt+Ghosts isn't a one-shot for anyone anymore, and it's really just simpler to mass-zerg all the adds and not worry about any problems. Enrage is no longer an issue at all. For reference, first kill (0%) 9:50. This weeks kill (15%) came in at 5:30.
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Re: [25H] Lady Deathwhisper

Postby heuvarius » Wed May 05, 2010 8:21 pm

Meloree wrote:
Kroda wrote:Meloree,

how does the kite tank avoid getting slowed by frost bolts? Are pallies chain HoF?

we're going to give the kite strategy a try next week, we couldn't get her down this week. Any other advice for the kite method?

thanks!


One of our holy paladins was basically the kite-tank's personal cleanse-bot for all of P2. He made sure he was always in range to cleanse, and prioritized that when aoe frostbolts went out, otherwise healed as normal. Also, one of our warlocks went Destro to be able to AoE stun "when stuff went wrong" (normally due to MC wierdness).


Another alternative method my guild use is to have a Paladin tank kite the adds with a pocket Warrior Piercing Howl bot.

This makes the dispelling a lot easier and avoids the random "MC you dispeller then AoE frost bolt you" issue that we initially had. I also find equiping a PVP trinket to be a good safety net. We've had wipes where MCs gets off CC your kiter (Cyclones!!) and have adds run rampant.
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