Normal -> Heroic Changes

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Re: Normal -> Heroic Changes

Postby Wrathy » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:00 pm

theckhd wrote:Yeah, when we go back we're going to try with 2 healers again. Unfortunately, we don't have the ranged stuns or knockbacks that your group has, so I think we'll stick to our melee strat. We were a little loose with the Rune of Blood taunting thanks to that strategy, which didn't help - if we can clean that up a bit it will help a lot. One attempt he healed for 2 million because I had to tank through almost 10 seconds of the debuff.

We used a Holy Pally and Disc Priest last night, and it was very difficult but doable. We tried both two and three healers, and we noticed that when we went to three healers we had three Marks by the time Saurfang soft enraged, making P2 impossible to heal through and survive. The adds just have to be the number one priority. We had one hunter trap and one frost shock, and that was enough to take them both out.

The DPS check on this fight is pretty steep, as is the healing in P2. Good Luck when you go back!
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Re: Normal -> Heroic Changes

Postby Antique » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:25 pm

we also downed him with 2 healers (holy pala and resto druid)
we had a few wipes when we got 3 marks the damage was just too much and a mark died.
on our kill we got mark #2 at about 5% so proper execution is key
very important for tanks to taunt instantly this greatly reduces the healing and the runepower gain.
we are very melee heavy and do not have a ele shaman or moonkin for kickbacks so what we did was have melee zerg one add, alternating hammer of justice between me and the retri paladin for each wave (6sec of stun was usually enough if not make sure a tank has aggro) and our 2 casters take care of the other (shadow priest slow was sufficient, i think our deathknight also chain of iced it after the melee add was down)
key to this fight is to minimize runepower gains because mark+bloodboil can and will oneshot someone frequently
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Re: Normal -> Heroic Changes

Postby Ulrik » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:07 am

[Surfang]
My group was overboard on ranged with one rogue as melee. We started as a 2-3-5 tank, heal, dps setup but the overall dps was too slow. Our rogue was tricksing a ranged to get threatless combo points in order to stun one add which didn't help. We were getting mark #4 at something like 25%.

Switching to a 2-2-6 went much better. I also respecced full points in hammer to stun one add each spawn. The real pain was needing to taunt right at a new spawn depending on recast of the Rune of Blood. I think this way we just beat out the 3rd mark.

We'd sometimes still loose someone from a lack of slows. Fan of Knives / crippling poison was too unreliable, so was hunter trap and totem. I think we ended up with a mix of FoK/Totem in the end in addition to hammer.

Heals were Holy Pally and Priest. They alternated on attempts between mark targets and tanks and the priest may have switched from disc to holy at the end so I can't recall what our final setup was. We still had at least one death seconds before the kill on a non marked person.

DPS check and heal insane. Get a replenish if possible, healers will love you.
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Re: Normal -> Heroic Changes

Postby Arianne » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:05 pm

Honestly, we were wiping on Saurfang until we made sure that we didn't take more than one or two hits with Rune of Blood up. Rune of Blood gives him a TON of rune power, more than any other ability it seemed. The attempt we made sure to get our taunts correct and ASAP was the one that we downed him on. Previously we'd been getting a Mark ~60% and with good RoB taunting that went down to ~50%, which was enough to have us only get 3 marks by the end.

Doing Rotface last night on 10 heroic I noticed that there appears to be a stacking movement slow from the green goo flows on heroic.

Doing BPC hard attempts was the most frustrating 2 hours of my life (at least in recent memory). I have no good solution to how people are supposed to deal with the empowered flame orb when moving causes shadow prison stacks. Usually we were ok (with 1 tank plus 2 melee sorta soaking the first hits) until there was a vortex cast on us and all of us would have to reposition, at which point there weren't enough soakers in the line of fire. Also, the empowered flame orb goes through DS. :(
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Re: Normal -> Heroic Changes

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:56 pm

So far my guild is has got like 5/12 of the heroics and planning on going in there tomorrow and killing festergut/rotface/ and valitheria. Then debating between putricide and sindragosa.

Was wondering if anyone knew a more detailed list of how much more damage a boss does etc.

Like Rotface- same encounter just vile gas gets thrown? How much more tank damage does he do? Can the person kiting slimes get vile gas? I would just wear a pvp trinket for this.

Festergut- Malleable Ooze, gets thrown down. Tons more damage done? Does it target melee? If so how do they manage not to chain vile gas?

Putricide- watched a video know pretty much most aspects of that fight.

Sindragosa- its heroic mode I know the changes, but does her damage aura tick for more? Does her frost breath do a ton more. How much harder does her frost aura tick for? Little questions like that.

I apologize for even wasting some people's time w/ questions like these but I really would like to know and I'll be looking it up obviously.

Also any tips/tricks on those encounters would be appreciated.
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Re: Normal -> Heroic Changes

Postby Joanadark » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:03 pm

discussion about strategies for fights, or asking for said strategies should probably be done in the appropriate thread for that specific encounter so that everyone can benefit from your experiences and questions.
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Re: Normal -> Heroic Changes

Postby Dem » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:52 pm

We're 9/12 in 10 man so far this week. Still waiting on LK 25 kill to open HM's.

Have to say, we're loving the increased challenge. Working out tactics during the encounters is so much fun compared to the usual read and execute. Putricide, Sindragosa and LK left with plenty of attempts left.
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Re: Normal -> Heroic Changes

Postby pfunkmort » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:37 am

I would really also love some more thorough information on the various bosses, and how people are attempting them, and yes, that should be in a boss specific format, so *cough* get on that.

@2cute2bestr8 - we are only halfway through our first week on our 25 man stuff, and only have 3 down, and our 10s we only spend like...a day on...a week, but, we burned through 8/12 heroic, so, I couldn't tell you real damage differentials (check out worldoflogs.com and search for guilds that are working on/have killed the current hard modes and sift their parses - the info IS attainable there, albeit a little tedious to go through), but I'll at least give my experience from 10 man on the bosses you were asking about.

Rotface - yes vile gas, yes the tank can get it. You can wear a pvp trinket for it, but you're going to be getting vile gas more often than the CD. essentially just judge justice if you're adds tanking, with sov and consecrate ticks, you'll be fine. BUT, there's also a debuff when you run through slime, which lasts five seconds, and stacks - it slows your movement speed (iirc it's 20% movement speed redux per stack). So, halfway through walking through a slime pool, you'll be at like five stacks and have to freedom yourself, or do SOMETHING to move again. Because of that, you have to make sure to keep as large a lead on the adds as possible, for the worst case scenario of running through ooze and having a puddle to walk through and getting vile gas (have a dps or healer ready with a second freedom if you get really stuck). dart back into range to judge and drop a consecrate, and get back to max range. On 25 (this is one of the three we did) - the oozes spawn a lot faster, to the point of being a real issue. We solved it by having two adds tanks, with a dk dps who could switch to frost presence and kite for sub 30%. Even with that, we found the oozes spawned really really fast, and with the complication of melee and healers getting vile gas running in and out to drop oozes on the big oozes, and the added random damage chain that can occur (at 3 stacks of slow from the ooze puddle, and about to hit freedom to finish running through it, I got vile gas and clubbed like a cute baby seal by the big ooze I was kiting one time), we started to tank RF like KT. Y formation. Tank in front, melee and healers on one foot, little ooze spawns on the other foot (to give time before the forming big oozes one shot a healer before the adds tanks can pull them out). FoK and MD to give initial aggro to the kite tanks and a taunt would pull out the newly formed big oozes, and then with the slower stack growth, we had it very manageable at the end (merging two big oozes with no stacks creates a big ooze with two stacks - and takes 4 little oozes. merging little ones into big ones you'd use three little oozes to get to a 2 stacked big ooze - so on and so on.)

Festergut - Malleable goo DOES target melee. The vile gas however, still only affects ranged. So, everyone is at ranged, who can possibly be, and your healers are spread around the room to ensure that two don't have to move at the same time from the goo. He doesn't target anyone when he throws it (in any way you can detect), you can't target putricide up on the ledge, so you literally have to WATCH the flying goo to see if it's coming in your direction or have spotters for each area, who are marked and people can run with (vent lag sucks). Best bet is to tank him to the left of the entrance up against the wall, to ensure the longest flying time before the goos hit. Again, a Y formation for the melee where they're stacked on one leg, and move to the other for a goo, means that ~85% of the time they won't get hit by it. Even on 10 man, dressed in all 264 (and a little 277) we weren't that far off the enrage. Making sure that as few goos as possible hit healers and dps will be necessary to get it down. Also, tanking him with three stacks of inhale hit extremely hard. Even with a reasonably high armor/stam set, I needed a CD rotation for it ->bubblewall->external->trinkets and AD - although AD didn't usually proc. Doable but it has to be clean. 2 healed to beat the enrage.

Sindragosa - again, only on 10 man, but she hits hard. REALLY hard. Especially as the mystic buffet stacks up. I was at 56k hp with about 250-300 FR from resist gear and aura. I was almost dead in p3 most of the time. Part of that is because I was the tank who had two healers resetting, instead of only one resetting for the other tank (who was a little less geared) - but it's also because she hits so damn hard. I wouldn't say the breath was much worse than her melee though, from my perspective, or maybe it's just that I was taking so much AOE damage that I didn't realize the spikes with all the spam heals. On an interesting side note - her frozen orbs during P2 - where you're all hidden behind ice blocks - hit for more than 56k (even with 250-300 FR)...so yeah...that was fun. No breaking ice blocks early. Actually, on 10 man though, we didn't have people with unchained magic running out, and just healed through the aoe - although they had to reset at like 2-3 stacks...until P3, where you really have to be clean about it - and everyone has to let the aoe go off when they're away from the raid.

Anyway, hope that helped. WTB more info on 25s. festergut heroic, saurfang heroic, and um...blood princes and valithria. go go.

Oh, I'm also interested to find out how people deal with putricide at the phase transitions. do you try to time your slime eating/revitalize so that you can have full energy and slow them both (allowing quicker killing of the oozes)? or do you just ignore the green one, and burn down the red - maybe popping hero or something?One of our attempts on him, I had a full energy bar, but usually he hits 80% so quick, that's not really possible.
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