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[25] Arthas - Valkyr

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[25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Maat » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:08 am

We're having a lot of trouble handling the valkyrs, and would like any tips.

What we attempt to do is collapse offcenter on the boss prior to the valkyrs spawning - this supposedly gets them moving towards the same edge, though it generally ends up being a 120-degress spread - then spread out for the defile casts. The opening stun is a Holy Wrath which gets at least 2 of 3, with earthbinds around the centre, and crippling poison/spamstrings. We can usually get the first trio down fine, as the Defile comes well after their spawn.

What kills us is the second set of Valkyrs, which is almost immediately followed by a Defile. Without the initial stun/aoe burn and then with the chaos of the Defile drop (especially on a melee... every video seems to have that critical Defile dropping on a ranged) we cannot seem to save more than one of the three, and the wipe spirals from there.

We do have a sort of zone defense spread of mixed damage groups (5-6 dps at 3 o'clock, 5-6 at 6, 5-6 at 9 etc) but well... it's just been rather rough. Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:13 am

I'd just say that Holy Wrath is probably not the best stun to start with. It only lasts 3 seconds, and puts all other stuns on DR. E.g. Hammer of Justice -> Holy wrath = 6 + 1.5 seconds, whereas Holy Wrath + Hammer of Justice = 3 + 3 seconds. Marking the Valkyrs quickly when they pop and having dedicated stunners on each mark might be an idea rather than relying on an AoE stun.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby PsiVen » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:05 am

We're working on this phase right now in 25-man, and while we haven't quite reached P4 yet, I think we settled on a pretty good strategy by last night's quitting time.

First, we have everyone run towards the center when the Valkyr spawn unless there's a Defile incoming. The Valkyr and Defile will sync up, but not exactly so you can mitigate the problem somewhat by having people run in, and then run out immediately once targets are picked. Ideally everyone will be running out when Defile gets thrown and it will end up at least off-center. This allows you to keep the boss around the middle, for easy access in clumping. Defiles in the Valkyr path pretty much require ranged DPS to quickly switch to them.

We open with a Holy Wrath from a Ret (hitcapped) because the Valkyr cannot be targeted until they come down, so we figure it would take a couple extra seconds to get the correct single-target assignments sorted. HW guarantees that setup time and allows for snares right away. Piercing Howl is ideal for that. We have 3 assist groups marking different targets, with 2 snares per group assigned and a few backup/AoE snares available just in case.

After the HW, we DO NOT stun them, just keep them snared. This allows the Stun DR to wear off just before it reaches the edge, and we can stun it there with a full-duration HoJ etc.


Before we started doing this, we attempted to stay in a sector spread (around a 90 degree arc). It was far more trouble than it was worth, as Defile was landing in a bad spot pretty much regardless of who it targeted. Now we stay spread out full time, only clumping very briefly when the Valkyr themselves spawn.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Keladin » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:02 am

Hi Maat:)

I think for tonights attempts we are going to have a dps warrior spec piercing howl and have the Unholy DK's spec desecration. The holy wrath at the start seemed to be strong when I could hit everything, assuming that tonight "stack on the boss" has a more literal meaning for some of our raiders.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby PsiVen » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:41 pm

So we actually changed our strategy tonight, but the previous one may work for other guilds. YMMV, but I'll describe what we're doing now:

Everyone clumps up on the boss before the Valkyr, and spreads out immediately afterwards if there's a Defile soon. If possible, we clump in the same sector so that the mobs fly near each other. The flexibility of clumping up wherever and spreading out quickly is pretty much needed to survive the waves that line up Defile/Valkyr together.

Melee groups are split in two, ranged get one. Snares are assigned, Piercing Howl and whatnot, and a healer is assigned to watch each group in case they get Infested while near the edge. A long single-target stun is assigned for each one. The way we target is by watching the order they come down in and using DXE to mark them. Triangle comes down first, then Diamond a second later, then Circle a second later. The ranged group burns down the Triangle and then gets on whichever target needs more help, and DPS switch around if a Defile interferes with melee.

This way, we hopefully get long stuns off quickly and several seconds of intense AoE damage to help burn the three down before they start flying off apart.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Cakes » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:38 am

While I'm not sure how their assignments are setup for killing valks, here's a vid of my former guild with accompanying vent to let you know what's getting called and when. The valk phase starts around 5:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3J-mCcc24k

Looks pretty similar to what you're describing with a short duration aoe stun to start, then additional stuns if needed. They even lose a person (warlock) to a relatively easy Valk -> Defile combo, and finish the encounter, so it's not impossible to lose a dps and keep going.

Hope this helps!
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Boèndal » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:21 pm

PsiVen wrote: The way we target is by watching the order they come down in and using DXE to mark them. Triangle comes down first, then Diamond a second later, then Circle a second later. The ranged group burns down the Triangle and then gets on whichever target needs more help, and DPS switch around if a Defile interferes with melee.


How can DXE do this for you? There is no option to do it, has someone in your raid written a plugin that does this? We had some trouble by using this tactic but having them marked by three players right after each other. There was regularly one fail marking or overwriting which resulted in bad or even no cc-chains.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Joanadark » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:29 pm

I seem to remember Shefki writing in that functionality to DXE when we were doing attempts on him last week, but I could be mistaken.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby fafhrd » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:07 pm

DXE had the functionality to mark valkyrs as early as last thursday. I imagine it only marks them after someone in the raid with assist has targetted each one of them though.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Worldie » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:37 pm

DXE definitively marks them with the 3 said colour.

It's useful to have the dedicater stunners call if they are picked up and can't slow down their one, and have backup people (for us, the 500 paladins we had) helping out.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Boèndal » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:39 am

At least my/our DXE marked no val'kyr yesterday. Having them marked by 3 different people instead worked well yesterday und we got the kill :)
In question is now why our DXE doesn't mark them. It would be easier and gives near to zero room for personal mistakes aka overwriting another mark.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Brutalus » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:54 am

Boèndal wrote:question is now why our DXE doesn't mark them. It would be easier and gives near to zero room for personal mistakes aka overwriting another mark.


If you downloaded DXE from curse it isn't updated with the latest version that marks the val'kyr, you need to download it from wowace or another source if it's available. Just check its change log to ensure you're downloading the right one.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby inthedrops » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:27 am

We had an issue last night with marks. One person noticed that it would get marked with one icon, then another, then no icon. We believe it was caused by raid leaders running both DBM and DXE and marks getting overridden. They fixed it by removing everyone's assist. They may have had the raid leader only running DXE at that point too.
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby Obor » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:26 pm

Latest alpha version of dbm marks the valks fine .. also has the option to 'yell' when you are marked for defile
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Re: [25] Arthas - Valkyr

Postby towelliee » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:44 pm

Where in DXE are the marking settings I can't find it
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