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[10/25] Sindragosa

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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby inthedrops » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:30 am

We two tanked this on our first kill but last night we went in with three tanks. The fight seems much easier with three. Fewer stacks on tanks and no risk of bad stuff if the second tank gets entombed. Plus each tank = more personal tank cooldowns.

If you're running with two tanks and having issues, you might consider three. Not required by any means but it seems easier.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:14 pm

Argali wrote:True, but I'm definitely thinking that it wasn't designed in such a way that it's mandatory for a tank to have aura/totem+GotW+resist flask+3 pieces FR gear. You know, the way some people are going "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCC------ FROST DAMAGE OMG WE NEED TO MAKE THE FROST RESIST PLATE AND GET THE FROST RESIST ARCANUM AND ENCHANT MY CLOAK WITH FR RESIST AND FARM ONY 10 AND 25 FOR RINGS."

Aura+GotW+(resist flask or 1 piece of Fr resist) seems reasonable. Maybe one more item if healers are..... "less skilled".

Aura and GotW don't stack. Otherwise, I totally agree with you. That said, I'd probably go with at least two FrR pieces, but that all depends on your healers. I rather enjoyed being able to go 15 seconds without a direct heal and surviving.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Joanadark » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:26 pm

You guys make it sound like you're taking constant frost damage. You aren't. This isn't Sapphiron. You take one big breath attack every 1 minute (iirc) that you can just cooldown through. Unless you stack prodigious amounts of FrR, you're going to need to cooldown through it anyway if you reach high stacks in p3. You will definitely need to cooldown it on hard mode.

If the issue is that your guild struggles with cooldown rotation management, then ok. Identify that as the problem, focus on it, and fix THAT. That's a pretty important proficiency for a raid group to have, and is applicable to pretty much every hard fight.
So unless your guild healing core is composed completely of druids and shaman, I don't really understand the point of FrR gearing.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Gavinas » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:39 pm

Joanadark wrote:You guys make it sound like you're taking constant frost damage. You aren't. This isn't Sapphiron. You take one big breath attack every 1 minute (iirc) that you can just cooldown through. Unless you stack prodigious amounts of FrR, you're going to need to cooldown through it anyway if you reach high stacks in p3. You will definitely need to cooldown it on hard mode.

If the issue is that your guild struggles with cooldown rotation management, then ok. Identify that as the problem, focus on it, and fix THAT. That's a pretty important proficiency for a raid group to have, and is applicable to pretty much every hard fight.
So unless your guild healing core is composed completely of druids and shaman, I don't really understand the point of FrR gearing.


Wowhead lists a 4500 frost damage per 3 seconds aura in the comments, is that not correct?
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Dicedagon » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:59 pm

Here are the resistance figures from an EJ thread:

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t44675-resi ... ics_wotlk/

After wiping on Sunday at 10%, we went straight to Sindragosa last night and got a kill on our third attempt using 2 tanks and 7 healers. I tried out a 417 FR set (belt, boots, chest plus FR aura) and tanked her as much as possible. 417 FR is a minimum 30% dmg reduction with a mean of 45% reduction. According to Recount, I took about 850k frost dmg, and resisted 700k frost dmg. We used 2 tanks and 7 healers.

Once I got to about 11-12 stacks of Mystic Buffet, our Warrior tank would step up behind her, braving a tail swipe, and taunt. I would drop my buffet stack and move in behind her and taunt her back as soon as I was ready. She would spin around on her axis without cleaving or breathing on the raid. This prevented us from getting both tanks breathed on.

Here is our parse. You can see in FR gear, I avoided 71% of her Frost Breaths in Ph3. I also stood in on blistering cold, which avged about 17k dmg.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/cm77qjl1 ... 69&e=10142

Our strategy was to minimize tank swapping to help focus healing and reduce risk of swaps. We found my Paladin a better fit to tank Sindragosa than our warrior, and with a FR set it was even easier.

Threat was not a problem, with MD and Tricks assisting, and my HP was about 55k, only 1500 lower than normal. The only cooldown used was a Guardian spirit once I hit 10 stacks of Mystic Buffet. I saved bubble wall for emergency, but did not need it.

TL;DR - A FR set helps smooth over the damage spikes caused by breath and blistering cold and seemed worth the investment.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:45 pm

Joanadark wrote:So unless your guild healing core is composed completely of druids and shaman, I don't really understand the point of FrR gearing.

1) The only significant burst in this fight is frost, as you noted. Sure, you can cooldown it, but resistance will reduce this even further.
2) The EH requirement for this fight is very low for the tanks, so you can gear for overall damage mitigation.
3) Over half of the total damage taken in the encounter is frost. You can reduce that amount considerably with the use of frost resistance. In this sense, frost resist is even more powerful than armor in this encounter, since it's more potent (you lose 1-2% physical mitigation in armor to pick up 10-20% of frost mitigation on a fight with equal amounts of both).

By using some FrR, you increase your TTL considerably. Enough that you barely need a dedicated healer beyond a HoT or two and a direct heal every 10-15 seconds. That frees up a lot of attention for raid healing, which also boosts your DPS on this fight since the DPS players can push harder. Especially if your healers are weak, or you're trying to 2-heal it on 10-man.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Meloree » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:17 pm

I'm with Theck on this one. Frankly, Brekkie, I'm kind of wondering what you're smoking here. The amount of frost damage in the fight is massive, and getting to 340 resist involves very very minimal compromises in other tanking stats, it's basically foolish not to get at least that high.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Belloc » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:01 pm

Honestly, there was no real compromise for me in just using 3-pc frost resist. And now I've got the trinket for an extra resistance cooldown every minute :P

Resistance is simply awesome on this fight.


Also, the buffet frequency adjustment makes this fight really easy on tank switching. Me and my co-tank had no issues tonight.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby inthedrops » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:58 pm

I wear one frost piece (the ring) but use cape and head enchant + resist flask. The main time I feel external cooldowns are useful is when I know that a "suck you in" (forgot the name) is going to be quickly followed by a frost breath. I ask for a cooldown while people are running away from the blast, or I use my own if it's up. Then again, I stand inside and eat the blast from the "suck you in". I think some guilds have their tanks run out.

As to the FR arguments, what's the point in arguing? Do what works for you. Clearly they both do.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Wrathy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:40 pm

Just out of curiosity, since I have not used any frost resist either week, does it give you a better chance of resisting the slowing debuf. I dont feel that i have been close to being in danger, as I dont even remember my AD popping so far in the encounter, its more for the simplicity of tank transitions in P3. Right now I have seen a few attempts where ill freedom to an iceblock in P3, only to get gripped back in and have to slowly walk back to said iceblock.

The FR is definitely something I will consider for Hard Modes coming up, but for now, Max Stam is doing just fine.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby inthedrops » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:44 pm

Wrathy wrote:Just out of curiosity, since I have not used any frost resist either week, does it give you a better chance of resisting the slowing debuf. I dont feel that i have been close to being in danger, as I dont even remember my AD popping so far in the encounter, its more for the simplicity of tank transitions in P3. Right now I have seen a few attempts where ill freedom to an iceblock in P3, only to get gripped back in and have to slowly walk back to said iceblock.

The FR is definitely something I will consider for Hard Modes coming up, but for now, Max Stam is doing just fine.


I would say it does. The first week I did it, no frost resist. And I had to freedom myself every time. Ever since then, I only had to freedom myself once (3 stacks I think when wearing minimal frost resist?)
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Treck » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:50 pm

Id still reccomend full frost ress gear for this fight both 10man and 25man. (570+flask? i think thereabouts atleast)
Her meele hits are far from anything close to dangerous, compared to the breath in P3, even if done perfectly with minimal stacks id still say you are more likely to die from breath than meele hits.
It for sure isnt a must, but it gives the healers a lot of extra freedom.
We got this 10man in out altraid with 2 restodruids, and 2 undergeared tanks, stacked in 3parts Frostress each +flask, when the 2nd maingroup couldnt get past her with 3 healers and 2 togc25+ geared tanks using only normal gear, sure they had some other issues aswell but getting the frost ress gear just gives the healers a lot more room to play with.
If you can remove or atleast reduce the only real danger in this fight, why not do it? thats what i think atleast.
Sure you can CD the breaths, but having FR gear, makes the breaths even smaller than with CD, and its for every single breath. And you can use the CDs for other times, if lots of healers gets the Unchained debuff, and one might be iceblocked? or other times when the raid could use the healers attention instead of the tank.
Even when iceblocks died faster than our OT could reset his stacks, i managed fine with 9-11stacks (about up to 150%? more dmg) long enough for him to go to the 3rd iceblock and reset them, where a breath + meele was still not killing me.
By using full out EH gear for the meele swings, i guess you could decrese the meele damage you take by 20%?, but keeping your Frost ress gear, im guessing you would decrese the frost damage spikes you take with about 40-50%. Even at Hardmode you might have to CD the Frostbreaths, but they will have to scale up her meele hits shitloads before id say its worth going back to "normal" gear. But lets ask paragon! ^^
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Sathoris » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:25 am

As Treck said,

We've had about 6-8 wipes because one of our tanks didn't had FR gear and we said, let's get the biggest HP tank we have to soak that frost breath with Magic Buffet stacks and see what happeneds.

The amount of damage unmitigated is insane and should not be ignored. That is the only skill that can 1 shot a tank and needs to be taken care of if someone wants to get a kill on this boss.

The FR plate gear are extremly cheap to buy, you won't need to spend more then 200-300g to craft all 3 of them, and if you really want to be picky, get the ring as well.

I'm tanked this boss along with our warrior tank witch both of us had FR gear from Early Saphiron kills (guild was forced to craft it back then ... it was worthed @ hodir and now again --- good money invested imo).

The FR we ended up having was 610 this includes: All 3 FR Plate parts, 1 FR Ring, 1 Ony 25 man Ring, FR Enchant on Cloak, Head Frost Enchant.

Now overall on this one you can be really fussy and get 2% more magic mitigation from the 32 stam, 2% magic reduction meta - usually get a side gear head - it might help out in the long run when you encounter this in heroic mode.

Overall this will get you up to 70% Frost Damage Mitigation, you will eventually laugh at Sindragosa's Frost Breath from now on.

I experienced from 13k with no magic buffet and up to 19-20k breaths with about 5-6 stacks as we switched tank on every Tomb.

One of the tries i managed to get 27 stacks and survived the breath with Bubble wall but the next one was at around 33 stacks which was 100k breath that eventually 1 shoted me.


TL;DR versions:
If you want to make this fight a bit easier (Tank wise) get FR gear.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Threatco » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:45 pm

After our 1 night of 13 wipes last week, we went back in on monday and 1 shot it.

Only difference was tanks in ilvl 213 frost resist boots/belt + frost resist totems + 50 resil flask instead of usual tank stuff.

The extra frost resist was huge, the tanks survived some very high stack breaths.

For lol's as a spriest I also put on 2 peices of FR gear + totem + flask, and oh boy it helped. Even at 8-10 stacks of mystic buffet I barley noticed damage I was taking through shield/hots. And with the backlash debuff I could stack it to 10 without a CD or PW:S only took 13k damage. I would estimate many classes would benefit from getting their FR up.

Besides that, people were just smart about dropping ice blocks.

This week we went in and 2 shot it. The only wipe was to the one new guy to the fight being first to get ice blocked in p3. First someone told him to go left (since he was closer to left) then the raid leader said go right (so the tanks can reset their stack). Well he went left, then right, and ice blocked 3 people near the middle.

A lol mistake but it was very smooth after that. Backlash not critting anymore is BIG.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Dantriges » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:03 pm

So our 10 man group got real problem there.

Our healers complain that the raid damage got really high.

So how often do you get behind the cubes?

How many melee do you have? We have 2. Is that a bit too much?

Ist everyone on the cubes?
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