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[10/25] Sindragosa

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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Avengeance » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:45 pm

There really isnt the need to use more than 1 piece of FR on normal/heroic, especailly with 10% buff in place. I tank 25heroic with the JC FR ring + a resist flask and breaths dont even get anywhere near killing you (even without using a cooldown). If tank switches are done properly you shouldnt have more than 6 stacks of mystic buffet at any 1 time. As people haev stated before, the melee hits are far more frightening, at least on 25 heroic.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby lythac » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:06 am

Belloc wrote:
Eredor wrote:How do you reach 540 defense with belt, boots and rings?

With belt & boots I'm already using 2 20def gems to get to 540.
Were I to equip the ring, I would loose another 60 def which means I would have to use another 3 20 def gems which guarantees I won't have a single stamina bonus.

3 pieces of frost resist are not at all required. If you're having issues remaining uncrittable, it's simply a matter of you having not acquired the level of gear that some others may have.

If you can remain uncrittable while using only 2 pieces, that is what I recommend.


He does have the required gear level but has both Pillars of Might and Crafted boots equipped with zero defense.

Looking at your armory you are going for 10 man?

If you're 2 tanking FrR isn't needed, sure equip those 2 pieces as Belloc says.

The easiest thing to do is to solo tank it, equip an old pair of legs and boots that come with +def (that aren't hopefully too much of a sta drop) and shoot for either a minimum 30% resist or 40%. With 30% you may have to rely on an external CD at 40% you do not need to.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Lightknight » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:10 am

Hello everyone,

my guild is at 9/12 Hardmodes and we are learning Sindragosa for a few hours yet.

Our setup:

2 tanks with roundabout 300 frost resistance and as much armor and expertise as possible. 8 healers, 4 casters, 3 hunters and 10 melee-dds.

Unchained magic:

Our casters stay permanently outside the melee/healer camp while sindragosa is grounded (P1). Our healers should stop casting if they get unchained magic. But they often/ever can't avoid getting one or two stacks while healing the raid with instant casts. So there is much friendly fire in the camp.

My questions:

1) How do you manage the unchained magic debuff? Do you send your casters AND your healers outside to explode?

2) I can imagine that healers getting even one or two stacks will kill half of the raid if mystic buffet is at 4-5 Stacks. How can healers completly avoid getting stacks accidentally?

3) Is there a specific setup that make things easier?
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Boyfriend » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:23 am

IIRC you have a certain number of healers and dps casters with the debuff applied. (2 each?)

We have 2 positions left for the 2 healers, 2 positions right for the 2 dps casters.

Afflicted players go to those positions, then 'manage' their debuff during P1.

Healers call for assistence on their assigned healing target if they get debuff.

During P3 noone casts when they have the debuff, afflicted healers call for assistance again (other healers knowing that there will be no heals on the target from that healer) if a tank healer gets afflicted tanks blow/recieve cooldowns.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:00 pm

It's 6 (3 healer, 3 caster dps) per cast. We do similar, but don't bother having the healers run out and manage their debuff at all (since you can't do that in phase 3, and phase 3 is much more demanding for healers than phase 1, so if the afflicted healers need to help out on the healing in p1, they'd be screwed in p3). As a result we've more room for the three afflicted dps to run out.

Really, it sounds like you're letting mystic buffet stack too high if a couple of 1 stacks of the instability aoe is killing your raid. Everyone has to be super-disciplined in the last phase about cancelling their cast if they get afflicted by unchained magic, and really you should never have more than 3 out of the 6 even getting a 1 stack (resto druids mashing instants tend to get a 1 stack). Similarly, people need to be disciplined about clearing their stacks regularly. Remind them that to clear their stacks they only have to be out of line of sight when the mystic buffet tick occurs (boss mods have a timer for it, and she does a big arcane explosion graphic when it occurs), so really it's only 3-4 of seconds of lost dps time if you time it correctly.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby amh » Mon May 17, 2010 6:32 pm

I've been wondering how you calculate magical mitigation. As a druid, I get 12% from talents + 3% from sanctuary. Additionally I get minimum 40% frost-resistance through gear, flask and aura.

Is it done like this? I guess this is called additive?

(32250 being her maximum frost breath damage without modifiers on 10man)

Code: Select all
Raw magical damage * p3 stacks * (total mitigation (12%+3+40%))

Let's say we're at five stacks
32250 * 1.5 * 0.45 = 21768.75


Or like this? Multiplicative?

Code: Select all
Raw magical damage * p3 stacks * talented mitigation * sanctuary * frost resistance

Still at five stacks
32250 * 1.5 * 0.88 * 0,97 * 0.60 = 24775.74
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Rhiannon » Mon May 17, 2010 10:28 pm

amh wrote:I've been wondering how you calculate magical mitigation. As a druid, I get 12% from talents + 3% from sanctuary. Additionally I get minimum 40% frost-resistance through gear, flask and aura.

Is it done like this? I guess this is called additive?

(32250 being her maximum frost breath damage without modifiers on 10man)

Code: Select all
Raw magical damage * p3 stacks * (total mitigation (12%+3+40%))

Let's say we're at five stacks
32250 * 1.5 * 0.45 = 21768.75


Or like this? Multiplicative?

Code: Select all
Raw magical damage * p3 stacks * talented mitigation * sanctuary * frost resistance

Still at five stacks
32250 * 1.5 * 0.88 * 0,97 * 0.60 = 24775.74


Multiplicative, additive would be way too overpowered (throw in a hand of sacrifice + barkskin and you'd be immune).
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby amh » Tue May 18, 2010 3:10 am

Cheers.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby lythac » Tue May 18, 2010 8:29 am

It is correct if the 12% comes from a single talent, if not needs to be broken down.

Lets take a paladin and Soul Reaper as I was just looking at this and it is a fixed amount. Random log - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8 ... 608&e=1941 events - [{"spellNames": ["Soul Reaper"]}]

Its a 60k ability and the first 3 hit for -

48387
48386
48386

Imp RF - 6%
GBTL - 6%
SotT - 3%
BoS - 3%
DP - 3%

60000*0.97*0.97*0.94*0.94*0.97 = 48386.27

So paladins have 19.36% magical reduction (not 21%).
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby amh » Tue May 18, 2010 8:46 am

Yeah, single talent.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby econ21 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:54 am

My guild tried Sindragosa for the first time last week - we killed Putricide unexpectedly easily, so had not planned to try the dragon. It was easy until the last phase, when suddenly everything seemed to happen very fast and we failed a few times. I have four pieces of frost resist gear and the aura, so about 485 frost resistance, and felt pretty robust as the main tank but found the tank swaps at the last phase hard to execute. I wonder if I could just check on basic tactics?

It seems like the key thing is managing the mystic buffet debuff, requiring breaks in LoS behind frost tombs. I've read:
(a) (from the wiki) in 10N people can safely take up to 8 stacks, so most could afford to only break LoS every other frost tomb. (Maybe healers need to alternate so one is always available?)
(b) the frost tomb(s) needs to stay up long enough for people to benefit from it breaking LoS, so having one melee assigned to dpsing it (e.g. a rogue) would work well.

Are (a) and (b) good pieces of advice to pass to my guild? Any other tips for first timers?
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Shathus » Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:46 am

4 pieces sounds like overkill especially if you're doing tank swapping. I would imagine most people would say for normal mode, if you're swapping, don't bother with frost resist. I wear 2 pieces and a resistance flask, but I also solo tank it for the extra dps. I just tell people to drop their stacks every other tomb (general rule of thumb, group 1 drops on first, g2 on 2nd, repeat til dead).

For swaps, just wait til after a Frost Breath to do the switch, you don't want both tanks getting hit by that. Timing-wise on the tombs, I find the previous tomb will go down just as the next one is coming up and that seems to work pretty well as far as giving everyone enough time, at least in that no one has complained to me they don't have time to drop their stacks.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby econ21 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:41 am

Is there anything special involved in solo tanking the last phase? Would I have to do anything aside from tank and spank? (e.g. use bubble to remove the stacks at some point). I know I might have to throttle attacking to let permeating chill drop off. With the 20% buff and my frost resist gear, I think I am geared for it (I have all the emblem of frost/primordial saronite tank gear so about 60k hp buffed and uncrittable with 485 resistance). If I could avoid the tank swop, I would like to.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Talaii » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:50 am

econ21 wrote:Is there anything special involved in solo tanking the last phase? Would I have to do anything aside from tank and spank? (e.g. use bubble to remove the stacks at some point). I know I might have to throttle attacking to let permeating chill drop off. With the 20% buff and my frost resist gear, I think I am geared for it (I have all the emblem of frost/primordial saronite tank gear so about 60k hp buffed and uncrittable with 485 resistance). If I could avoid the tank swop, I would like to.


Bubble doesn't remove the stack. You're going to need a tank save of some sort for every single breath past about 8-9 stacks (less on 25-man, or on heroic). It's really not worth the effort, considering how much less tank damage you have to deal with if you swap.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby lythac » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:02 am

Talaii wrote:
econ21 wrote:Is there anything special involved in solo tanking the last phase? Would I have to do anything aside from tank and spank? (e.g. use bubble to remove the stacks at some point). I know I might have to throttle attacking to let permeating chill drop off. With the 20% buff and my frost resist gear, I think I am geared for it (I have all the emblem of frost/primordial saronite tank gear so about 60k hp buffed and uncrittable with 485 resistance). If I could avoid the tank swop, I would like to.


Bubble doesn't remove the stack. You're going to need a tank save of some sort for every single breath past about 8-9 stacks (less on 25-man, or on heroic). It's really not worth the effort, considering how much less tank damage you have to deal with if you swap.


If this is 10 man by my reckoning you would need to start CDing breathes at around 24 stacks.
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