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[10/25] Sindragosa

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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Felyndiia » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:29 pm

I tanked her in hardmode (25 and 10) without any FR gear. The melee hits were serious business (Up to 38k on me, world of logs is down atm, otherwise I would post a log), as problematic as the breath (Ok not for the "lol I've got 71k HP with full FR Feral tank" -.- ).
It's important to taunt as late as possible after each breath, in an ideal world with zero stacks from the mystic buffet. That makes you able to surive it without any cooldowns up, often without triggering the ardent defender. After ad proccs, I started using cds (Salv, canceled Divine Sacrifice, dp). Of course you are dropping extremly low after every breath, but there are no differences to melee swings/cleave because you don't survive two hits.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby cds4850 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:30 pm

We got our first kill tonight running 2 tanks and 2heals. The following are the two parses for our tanks:

Bradz Warrior tank in normal progression gear
0 Frost Resist (without totem/aura/MotW)

Boddess (yours truly) in crafted chest/belt/boots, spell damage reduction meta, Ony25 helm, head/cloak enchant, ring, and flask
Somewhere in the ballpark of 510 frost resist for the fight.

I'm at a loss in looking at the WoL because, as far as I can tell, he resisted over 40% of the frost breaths, while I resisted 20%. Luckily it ended well with me being the last tank standing at 12stacks. I'm just not sure if I'll be wearing that much resist in the coming weeks.

Any light that could be shed on these parses would be greatly appreciated, as I took a world of shit for suggesting we have each raid member toss on a piece of 213 crafted resist gear (GASP, for shame.)


For reference, my armory is here. We've decided to extend this raid lockout to spend the entire weeks worth of offnight time on Arthas. Frost Wing and LK have really been a nice upswing in difficulty towards the end of this place, even on a 10man level.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby lythac » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:50 am

cds4850 wrote:I'm at a loss in looking at the WoL because, as far as I can tell, he resisted over 40% of the frost breaths, while I resisted 20%. Luckily it ended well with me being the last tank standing at 12stacks. I'm just not sure if I'll be wearing that much resist in the coming weeks.


You are looking at the full resists? He fully resisted 3/10 and you fully resisted 1/5. The samples aren't large enough.

Code: Select all
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o3bjjqnuo6w01ajj/log/?s=1637&e=2060

[{"spellNames": ["Frost Breath"], "targetNames": ["Bradz"]}, {"spellNames": ["Frost Breath"], "targetNames": ["Boddess"]}]


Just looking through these there is a clear difference in the worst case scenario. The worst that can hit you is a breath with only 40% resisted, his is 10%.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby lythac » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:44 am

Code: Select all
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o3bjjqnuo6w01ajj/log/?s=1994&e=2060

[{"eventTypes": [3, 5], "targetNames": ["Bradz"]}, {"eventTypes": [1], "targetNames": ["Bradz"]}]


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Had the warrior had minimum of 510 FrR (min 40% resist, knocking 4k of his health) in the worst case scenario he would have ended up with 9.5k health rather than the overkill of 3.6k.

Now that is worst case, on average he would have made it through with 18.8k.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Scrawn » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:24 am

We are having mass problems in p3 in the 10man version of this encounter.

It seems that we are getting overwhelemed by frost tombs and raid damage gets really high. Could we be getting overwhelmed because DPS numbers are too low? Seems odd as we have had the DPS to clear every other encounter in this fight.

We are using a 2Tank 5DPS 3Healer setup, anyone had experience of dropping to 2 healers to speed up DPS on tombs?

Any other tips you've figured out to help you through the post p1+2 snoozefest that is manic p3?

EDIT: We are s strict10 guild so everything so far for us has been pretty tight
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby hoho » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:33 am

Biggest problems we had on our 10-man kill was too high dps on tombs leading to people not resetting their stacks. I don't think 2-healing it is really viable considering how high raid damage will be in last phase. Just ask your dps to kill the tomb while they sit behind it waiting for the stack to reset.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Neara » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:00 am

In 10-man we did it with me as MT and a kitty as OT. I was at 510+ FR the kitty at 220~ in kitty gear (aura + flask (improved due to him being Alchemist))
So we had 3 healers one tank and 6 DDs. We put the fast hitting Melees (rogue, kitty, shaman) on tomb duty. Mage, Hunter and Arms-Warri were on Sindragosa full time (Warrior was resetting buffet every 2 tombs) [On a side note: our mage is totally pissed off about the fight. At least on 3 healers the casting debuff rotates. But he as our only Casting DD gets it every time the whole fight :D ]
I was mostly OK until 10 Buffet Stacks, than i called for the druid, he switched in bear and taunted with barkskin, i ran behind a tomb ~6-8 seconds later i was back in front of sindragosa and the kitty could go back freeing frozen people.
We only focused on surviving and beat it like that, slowly, but nice and easy. The important part is that everyone stays focused in p3, if someone messes up running out of the raid while beeing targeted by the tomb or someone runs in too soon you start to lose.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby kanst » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:14 am

So my 10 man group killed Sindragosa this week after a few hours of attempts. Both our tanks wore some frost resist, I wore belt, chest, and crafted ring, my feral OT wore chest, crafted ring, and used a resist flask. Personally I feel like it really helped, tank transitions were a lot less stressful, and I got a handful of full resists.

Our strategy for phase 3 was, we faced him towards the left (as you enter the room) and the entire raid stood on the side of him where the stairs are. Everyone grouped up in the middle of the room, we altenated what side frost tombs went on, first one to the right of the raid second one ot the left and so on and so forth. We only had 1 dps dps the tombs, it was the rogues job, everyone else just ducked behind long enough to lose their stack then got back on the boss, we had 1 healers who was in charge of making sure whoever was marked got topped off and got a shield, so the tomb didnt kill them. The hardest part was coordinating our healers, so that one was always healing the tank and one was dropping stacks. On the kill our healer makeup was holy pally, holy priest, disc priest. We lost a few people on the kill, but after the first 2 were dead it kind of stabilized and it felt like we could have continued doing it forever.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby fafhrd » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:19 am

hoho wrote:Biggest problems we had on our 10-man kill was too high dps on tombs leading to people not resetting their stacks. I don't think 2-healing it is really viable considering how high raid damage will be in last phase. Just ask your dps to kill the tomb while they sit behind it waiting for the stack to reset.


This shouldn't really be a problem regardless of how quickly you kill the tombs though, since Mystic Buffet refreshes itself very infrequently (every 5s I think) and has a short duration (6s?). Basically if you spend 2s behind a block when your debuff is 1-2s from being refreshed, it falls off. You certainly don't need to have a block up to hide behind for a full 6s each.

Now if you're killing blocks in 2 seconds, yes that'll be a problem, but you're probably not, and everyone in the raid is on the same Mystic Buffet refresh timer.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby hoho » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:51 am

Thing was we had people go behind the block at quite random times and most of the time they started to DPS it immediately. I personally didn't feel the need to hide before I had 5+ stacks and it happened a couple of time that by the time stack got bigger than that the block got shattered before I could get behind it. It certainly didn't happen all the time but a couple of times I did have to play extra safe in order not to die :)
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby kanst » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:25 pm

hoho wrote:Thing was we had people go behind the block at quite random times and most of the time they started to DPS it immediately. I personally didn't feel the need to hide before I had 5+ stacks and it happened a couple of time that by the time stack got bigger than that the block got shattered before I could get behind it. It certainly didn't happen all the time but a couple of times I did have to play extra safe in order not to die :)


Assign one person to kill them, any fast attacking melee is a good choice as their stacks will get high and lead to lots of downtime anyways. In our run the rogue was the only person to attack ice blocks, if he got blocked the entire raid would kill the block but otherwise we just let one person do it alone. He did plenty of damage to kill them before the next one, but left the block up for plenty of time for me to run from Sind's head and get behind it.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby PsiVen » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:30 pm

Scrawn wrote:We are having mass problems in p3 in the 10man version of this encounter.

It seems that we are getting overwhelemed by frost tombs and raid damage gets really high. Could we be getting overwhelmed because DPS numbers are too low? Seems odd as we have had the DPS to clear every other encounter in this fight.

We are using a 2Tank 5DPS 3Healer setup, anyone had experience of dropping to 2 healers to speed up DPS on tombs?

Any other tips you've figured out to help you through the post p1+2 snoozefest that is manic p3?

EDIT: We are s strict10 guild so everything so far for us has been pretty tight


It sounds like your DPS aren't resetting their stacks quickly enough, they should pretty much use every block for this if survival is an issue, which will also increase the speed at which they kill blocks.

2-healing this fight is extremely dangerous because of the possibility for one healer to be tombed while the other has Unstable Magic, but it can be done with enough luck. We pulled out a kill last week with 1 healer alive for the last 20% or so, presumably because the stars had realigned (after coming together to screw our first attempt with a horrible iceblock followed by an iceblock on a dead player followed by an iceblock on the MT).
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby cds4850 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:47 pm

lythac wrote:
cds4850 wrote:I'm at a loss in looking at the WoL because, as far as I can tell, he resisted over 40% of the frost breaths, while I resisted 20%. Luckily it ended well with me being the last tank standing at 12stacks. I'm just not sure if I'll be wearing that much resist in the coming weeks.


You are looking at the full resists? He fully resisted 3/10 and you fully resisted 1/5. The samples aren't large enough.

Code: Select all
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o3bjjqnuo6w01ajj/log/?s=1637&e=2060

[{"spellNames": ["Frost Breath"], "targetNames": ["Bradz"]}, {"spellNames": ["Frost Breath"], "targetNames": ["Boddess"]}]


Just looking through these there is a clear difference in the worst case scenario. The worst that can hit you is a breath with only 40% resisted, his is 10%.


Thanks for showing your queries, Iythac. I'm still learning how to parse through the log, but your search really shows the significance of frost resistance at appropriate levels.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Dendrah » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:42 am

I now did read all 8 pages on this issue and I have seen a decent many posts on "I'm so proud I could tank it without frost resist gear".

What is wrong with you people? Is gearing to the encounter no longer part of being a tank? This mofo puts out massive frost damage and only frost damage will ever endanger a tank to die. Why the hell would you not wear frost resist gear? You get 4 pieces with high stamina and a decent amount of sockets so you can tailor to your needs for def/expetise/hit/... all you like. Just don't be the lazy fool and get your frost resist set together.
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Re: [10/25] Sindragosa

Postby Wrathy » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:54 am

Dendrah wrote:I now did read all 8 pages on this issue and I have seen a decent many posts on "I'm so proud I could tank it without frost resist gear".

What is wrong with you people? Is gearing to the encounter no longer part of being a tank? This mofo puts out massive frost damage and only frost damage will ever endanger a tank to die. Why the hell would you not wear frost resist gear?


Honestly I dont think anyone here is saying that they thought about wearing frost resist gear, and then saying screw it I like a challenge and I am super pro so I dont need to. I think it was more of the fact that we pointed out it is not necessary to complete the fight. Any top end guild's tanks already out gear the fight. The first week I went in there with full EH gear, stacking stamina to the hilt, and did fine. Now I have frost resist gear because it makes more sense.

Its not a matter of gearing or not gearing for an encounter, the posts were there to tell people that you dont NEED it, it can be done with out. Now while that is true, I agree with you that for 300 gold in mats you can make your FR and be done with it.
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