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[10] Blood Queen Lanathel

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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Nekkos » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:15 pm

inthedrops wrote:
Nekkos wrote:So the bleed is placed on the OT? Would this necessitate a tank swap at any point? She wasn't spawned when we got to her in 10m last night so we haven't seen her yet :|.


Delirious Slash wasn't stacking and wasn't threatening to a regular tank. We ignored that it even exists.


Fair enough, thanks :o.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Trevize » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:13 pm

We had a pally with beacon on the off tank keep us up without many problems at all. The OT damage was minimal in 10. So much so that the warrior in DPS gear/spec made no difference with our healer. Our Discipline Priest is pretty decked out and his shields helped. If he puts a shield on each of us...the MT shield counts as 2 because the reduced damage after the shield goes to the OT before his shield kicked in, hence doubling its effectiveness on the OT. Yet again another fight where a Discipline priest is godly.

The damage was showing on our recount on the off tank. He was taking 6k occasionally, not much more then that. We didn't try other classes as the OT as that would have served no purpose so I can not comment on that. Yet again this was for 10m. 25m I am assuming has much higher damage on the tanks.

EDIT: I was also in threat gear but that does include the crafted armor pieces. I truly think the Discipline priest made all the difference after thinking about it for awhile. Damage that is absorbed by the MT never gets to the OT.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Kishandra » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:42 pm

guillex wrote:
Kishandra wrote:Any dps fight that is strict in 25s is very lenient in 10s. Take 3 healers.


Can we be a little more constructive when trying to discuss a 10man version of a fight?

Thanks.


How is this not constructive? The OP was clearly having trouble 2-healing this fight and worried that 3 healing would put them behind the enrage. There really is no worry of being behind for 10man.

The enrage timer in 10man is set up so that you'd need a total raid dps of 43k, which is almost achievable without the essence debuff for most average 25man guilds.

Following the general rules of 10mans for 25man guilds, , if there are adds involved that must be dpsed down while still damaging the boss, eg putricide, then you 2 heal it. If there is high raid damage involved, then you 3 heal it. Either would still put you ahead of the timer unless you lose some players midfight, because 10man hp is simply scaled very poorly in comparison to 25. Most bosses have less than a quarter as much hp in 10man, while a 25man raid of the same caliber as a 10man will produce only slightly more than three times as dps. Thus, any 10man fight can be considered ~30% "undertuned" in terms of dps.

As for the player who said they were very close to the enrage as a 25man guild, I'd imagine they were not making full use of the 5:30 enrage (and you do this by letting one vampr'ed player die when there are 2 vamprs out.) If you don't let anyone die, you'd run out of players to bite at roughly the 4:15 mark, which -does- put a far more stringent dps check in place, analogous to what a 25man raid needs.

The above is moot, however, since they changed the essence timer to 75 seconds in 10man, which removes the need for a vampr sacrifice halfway into the fight.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Treck » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:44 pm

"Bring the player not the class"
And hope that player plays a holypally.
For 10man bringing a holypally who knows what to do gives the raid a lot of freedom.
On our 10man both healers were doing +7k hps (restodruid/holypally combo)
I dont know if a strict 10man guild have the dps required with bringing a 3rd healer along, since we just oneshotted it and i have no idea how close to enrage we were.
We used 6 healers in the 25man version and ended up at enrage, and as the healing intensive fight it is we hesitated bringing in a dps instead of a healer, but it worked well and from the looks of it, only contributed to less overhealing, same healing was easily done by one healer less.
I would asume same works for 10man, bringing in a 3rd healer might not make it easier to heal, but just add to more overhealing.
It might be that ppl are taking more damage than they should, healing will be harder in the start of the fight since once someone becomes a vampire they will heal themselves for a lot aswell.
Also if your having healingtrouble but you are fine on the enrage timer, you could always try making a healer a vampire. A restodruid with this buff would pretty much completely cover the raidwide damage.
A shadowpriest will do 100% more healing with his/her groupheal, and could be a good idea to prioratize biting that person early on, to ease the healing a bit.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Boèndal » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:54 am

Treck wrote:Also if your having healingtrouble but you are fine on the enrage timer, you could always try making a healer a vampire. A restodruid with this buff would pretty much completely cover the raidwide damage.


Can you explain this please? We've killed this in 25&10 on our mains and with alts in 10s' and there is no healing buff similar to the dps buff granted by http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=70867#see-also-other. Biting a healer should be your last option to avoid mind control if you had some dps deaths during the fight. Biting a tank would benefit you more because he is some kind of full time dps.

Haven't tried the "OT is a plate DPS" strat but I think this is only doable in 10s' and if you have a holy paladin with you.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Rithale » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:19 am

I imagine the reason the blood mirror damage seems so trivial to a tank is that a dps has to survive it for the quest chain for shadowmourne. Still that can only be done in 25 man
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Scrawn » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:07 am

Kishandra wrote:
How is this not constructive? The OP was clearly having trouble 2-healing this fight and worried that 3 healing would put them behind the enrage. There really is no worry of being behind for 10man.

The enrage timer in 10man is set up so that you'd need a total raid dps of 43k, which is almost achievable without the essence debuff for most average 25man guilds.

Following the general rules of 10mans for 25man guilds, , if there are adds involved that must be dpsed down while still damaging the boss, eg putricide, then you 2 heal it. If there is high raid damage involved, then you 3 heal it. Either would still put you ahead of the timer unless you lose some players midfight, because 10man hp is simply scaled very poorly in comparison to 25. Most bosses have less than a quarter as much hp in 10man, while a 25man raid of the same caliber as a 10man will produce only slightly more than three times as dps. Thus, any 10man fight can be considered ~30% "undertuned" in terms of dps.

As for the player who said they were very close to the enrage as a 25man guild, I'd imagine they were not making full use of the 5:30 enrage (and you do this by letting one vampr'ed player die when there are 2 vamprs out.) If you don't let anyone die, you'd run out of players to bite at roughly the 4:15 mark, which -does- put a far more stringent dps check in place, analogous to what a 25man raid needs.

The above is moot, however, since they changed the essence timer to 75 seconds in 10man, which removes the need for a vampr sacrifice halfway into the fight.


I believe this was only mentioned because the original statement was a very generic blanket statement, up until the vampire timing change this fight WAS very strict under 3 healers in only 10 man gear. The same so far has applied to Rotface and Putricide for us so far where dropping to 2 healers made the kill. Our average DPS is in the 4.5-6.5k range, we have not tried since the timing change so a sacrifice will not be necessary - I'll update on monday when we go again to see how this changes up the encounter.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Treck » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:01 pm

Boèndal wrote:
Treck wrote:Also if your having healingtrouble but you are fine on the enrage timer, you could always try making a healer a vampire. A restodruid with this buff would pretty much completely cover the raidwide damage.


Can you explain this please? We've killed this in 25&10 on our mains and with alts in 10s' and there is no healing buff similar to the dps buff granted by http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=70867#see-also-other. Biting a healer should be your last option to avoid mind control if you had some dps deaths during the fight. Biting a tank would benefit you more because he is some kind of full time dps.


I apologize for beeing misleading, and my information is indeed completely incorrect. There is however the buff called exactly the same http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=70949 witch is granted to you IF you get MCed by the boss. At some point these were mixed up and thought as the same debuff.
Just get your best dpsers bitten but whatever you do, DO NOT GET MCed! rather bite a healer than going MCed...
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Xequecal » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:02 pm

hoho wrote:
Kishandra wrote:Any dps fight that is strict in 25s is very lenient in 10s. Take 3 healers.
Actually it was quite complicated on 10-man with 3 healers and everyone in 25-man gear. We had healers pull around 20k hps in addition to ~5k from other sources (vampiric embrace, heals from debuff). We had people doing close to 50k raid-DPS and still got her down just seconds before first player would have got MCd.


2 vs. 3 healers is going to come down to what classes they are. With a Paladin to heal both tanks at once you can probably 2-heal it, but without one it's going to be nasty. We did it with resto Druid/disc Priest in 10-man and I honestly thought it wasn't going to work, but then our resto Druid somehow pulled off 9,834 HPS and we got it down.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Steve » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:18 pm

On our 10 man, the combined HPS of the healers was roughly 19K. That's a significant amount of healing to expect out of 2 players.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Trevize » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:41 am

Remember healing gets progressively easier as the fight goes on as more people get the buff. We 3 healed it and had our swing elemental shammy go resto...and dps at the end. Next week I think we might have him stay elemental until healing gets under control, then dps. I figure with the nerf we will kill it with ease considering we did it pre-nerf and non-martyr.

Discipline priest trivializes this fight, like Saurfang.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Varuk » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:28 am

Killed her last night on 25m; a seriously tight race!

But, I was paying attention to damage meters in the initial pull and every time without fail the bite went to the person on top of damage meters 15s in. So, put my hat into the "unmodified threat" theory.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Carabas » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:29 am

We managed to kill her sunday with a 3 healers setup (holy priest, resto druid & resto shaman) after a couple of attempts with just the priest and the shammy (getting her at 50% was our best result). They did a wonderful works nonetheless, managing to two healing thru the Princes, but the Queen was too much for them only. 2 tanks switching to get the most out of cds and after 3 tries she was down.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Taeron » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:35 am

We have tried Queen last week, going again this week. Our problem was mostly surviving the second levitate phase where the damage seemed to kill off a couple of people and priest's hymn was on cooldown. Do you have any suggestions on how to properly manage levitate phases?

Also, there's mention of tank switching - I haven't really noticed why it would be required? Is there something stacking/happening that would make this easier if the tank switched at some point?

Thank you.
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Re: [10] Blood Queen Lanathel

Postby Metherlance » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:46 am

Taeron wrote:We have tried Queen last week, going again this week. Our problem was mostly surviving the second levitate phase where the damage seemed to kill off a couple of people and priest's hymn was on cooldown. Do you have any suggestions on how to properly manage levitate phases?

Also, there's mention of tank switching - I haven't really noticed why it would be required? Is there something stacking/happening that would make this easier if the tank switched at some point?

Thank you.


About air phases, just make sure you spread out at least 6 yards from each other. And if you have paladin on raid, make him to spec to divine sacrifice/divine guardian, it lasts 6 seconds like the air phase and reduces damage taken from whole raid by 20%. Also if he is holy, he could use aura mastery too on it, cuts the damage even more.

About tank switching there kinda is nothing going on stacking or anything, but if you switch tanks you get more tank cooldowns. If main tank uses shield wall, the damage that the off tank takes will be less also. So by switching tanks you get more uptime to defensive cooldowns, affecting both tanks.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/chromaggus/Metherlance/advanced

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