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[25/10] Blood Prince Council

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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Neara » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:51 pm

Shoju wrote:Now, I'm looking for info from another 10 man tank here. We have currently been using this strat because the night we tried to solo tank the melee (someone on here said that they did) we ended up with a dead melee tank.

What kind of gearing level would you need to tank both melee princes? I'm currently at 40k and change using a tank weapon, though I find myself tanking more and more with a DPS weapon (251dps weapon > 232 tank weapon) and I'm just under 39k unbuffed when wear the DPS weapon.

I tank them both with ~32-34k Armor and 46,7k HP unbuffed (raidbuffed it's now 57,something if i remember right, we're lucky and have every HP buff in our 10man only commanding shout is unimproved)
And Ardent Defender still procs sometimes (mostly due to missed kinetec bombs) last week's been the first time that it didn't proc

For this fight, I have been wearing my Armor trinket, and I try to keep my cooldowns up in a steady rotation, and I was running SS on myself since I didn't have the holy paladin. Tanking 1 didn't seem to hurt too much, but I'm not sure if I'm able to tank 2. Anyone give me an idea if it is possible?

stam-trinket > armor-trinket even more so with so much magical dmg flying around.


imho: if 3-tanking this works for you, just go for it. No need to change something just because some overgeared tanks can take both melee-bosses at once ^^
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:16 am

@balloonknot: There is an enrage timer of 10 minutes. And yes, the Kess tank should be orb collecting first and foremost whenever Kess isn't empowered. Calling the change and getting them back over there is enough time to make sure that they maintain threat for the empowered beating.

I use the armor trinket for an extra 'cooldown'. Yes, I would like to have the extra stam, but I'm trying to make the healing as easy as possible.

3 tanking is working, but we as a guild have lighter DPS than most 10 man guilds in ICC. Being able to get to a point where we can 2 tank it is my goal so that we can get another DPSer on the fight.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby balloonknot » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:54 am

Shoju wrote:@balloonknot: There is an enrage timer of 10 minutes. And yes, the Kess tank should be orb collecting first and foremost whenever Kess isn't empowered. Calling the change and getting them back over there is enough time to make sure that they maintain threat for the empowered beating.

I use the armor trinket for an extra 'cooldown'. Yes, I would like to have the extra stam, but I'm trying to make the healing as easy as possible.

3 tanking is working, but we as a guild have lighter DPS than most 10 man guilds in ICC. Being able to get to a point where we can 2 tank it is my goal so that we can get another DPSer on the fight.


10 min enrage for a boss with 5.6mil health may as well not exist :p

We did this last night with an undergeared OT (paly with 36k unbuffed health) and had her tank the 2 melee. There were a couple wipes but never due to her death so i would say 2 tanking it should be pretty easy.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Rothes » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:49 am

We are wiping on this in 10 man due to raid damage. Neither of the two tanks is dying. I am just not sure what is happening. I know our hunter is keeping the orbs up. What are other potential sources that could be killing off the dps?
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Shoju » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:51 am

bombs dropping and vortexes and sparking fire bombs
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby antiy4ho0 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:23 am

My guild just downed Putricide and we decided it was time to go into the crimson halls and work on Blood Prince Council. In short, it was extremely rough. Our best attempt ~45%. We started off with a Demo lock range tanking, a bear on the energy guy and myself tanking the fire guy. 3 Heals, 2 resto druids and a resto shaman. The Warlock had issues keeping the shadow orbs on himself, and maintaning threat on his target. In addition, our best DPS was on orb duty because unfortunately we did not have anyone else that we felt were capable of keeping the orbs afloat while watching everything else. We ended up putting the bear on the shadow guy, I solo tanked the other 2 and we had better attempts (our best ~45%) but no kill. Putting the bear on the shadow guy allowed our top DPS to get on the princes and the gain in DPS was noticeable. Our last pull of the night, we tried two healing it, allowing one of our trees to go boomkin. Healing seemed steady but we wiped early, around 70% so who knows.

Anyway, as RL I really have no idea what to tell people. There is no realistic way I can call everything for everyone, and people are getting hit by things they shouldn't be. Mainly Shock vortices on the ground. Also, almost all of our wipes were due to kinetic bomb hitting the ground--> losing someone to one of the many aoe's-->Domino effect. It's extremely frustrating to have such a poor night on Blood Princes, but the fight just seems very unforgiving. Especially in regards to the kinetic bomb.

I got mixed responses from the people I had assigned to the bomb. One of my warlocks said her imp was not keeping the bomb afloat, but I could of swore I saw the imp keeping one bomb afloat all by itself. Did I miss something or is my warlock mistaken?

Should I expect my bear to be able to hold threat if his prince gets empowered first? I know his prince no longer melees while empowered(?) but he still has to run away to prevent our DK's from stealing his orbs. I assume with all that time on the boss he should be able to have such a big threat lead that they shouldn't be able to catch him, is this realistic?
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Brutalus » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:30 am

We also use 3 healers for Blood Council. Like you, we have 2 tanks, one for Valanar and one for Taldaram. We usually have a warlock ranged tanking but sometimes put a shadowpriest on it depending on our warlock's availability. By the time of the second empower, our warlock already has 3 or 4 nucleii around him and has sufficient threat for the dps to nuke Keleseth (if he's the second empower) without too much worry. Towards the end of the phase they start to worry a little bit more about threat and just before the target change they do sometimes stop their dps, but it's a very minimal time frame.

We didn't like the idea of solo-tanking Valanar and Taldaram, as when Taldaram is empowered we have the Valanar tank chasing down the empowered fire balls that chase a ranged, as he can't produce much other useful throughput otherwise. We assign an arcane mage to handle the kinetic bombs, and if for some reason he can't get a certain one or something he'll call it out on vent and someone will be able to handle it: either me with Avenger's Shield or a DK with their ranged attacks or our moonkin. As to your warlock's imp, as far as I know there can be more than one kinetic bomb active at a time in the 10man version, so I'm not sure it can handle both. If you're wiping a lot to kinetic bombs, just assign a full-time dps on it like we do. A mage is great because he can blink around and doesn't lose dps from switching targets frequently.

I tend to just call out the special abilities: Empowered Shock Vortex, Conjure Empowered Flameball (or whatever). We also announce if our kinetic bomb mage seems to have missed one or if there's one he hasn't seen.

As for your bear, I've never really considered putting a "real" tank on Keleseth. I think threat will most likely be a problem, and I haven't read anything about him no longer meleeing during empower, but that doesn't mean to say that he does melee during empower (we've never tried it!). To be perfectly honest with you, I would stick some ranged dps that you are comfortable with on Keleseth, and as long as people aren't intentionally aoe'ing the nucleii for damage, he shouldn't have a problem picking them up. It is however crucial that he doesn't run like a maniac out of healer's range. Lastly, try to make it so your healers are running around everywhere: when Keleseth is empowered and he's moving all over the room, have your other tanks follow slowly so that healers aren't running round everywhere.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Neara » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:41 am

Should I expect my bear to be able to hold threat if his prince gets empowered first?

What you really should expect is your DPS to watch Omen and stop hitting the guy if they are abovce 90%. The fights no DPS race and everyone who pulls threat on kel should be yelled at and put on kinetic-duty on the next try. Even the Raid with the shittiest DPS ever, going with too much healers and tanks and putting every remaining DPS on a special duty in this fight should beat the enrage.

Surviving equals beating the princes, it's really as simple as that.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Zaluthar » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:44 am

hoho wrote:
Avengeance wrote:And a ranged tank threat isnt that great.
I tanked it yesterday on 10-man without any tot/MD on my spriest that gest 30+8% threat reduction from talents. I pretty much kept up my normal rotation and threw a few rank2 SWP's on the orbs when they were neraby. He got empowered third I was so far ahead with threat I could pretty much forget about it for the rest of the fight and run around picking orbs while dps'ing other bosses :P

Yea, I had only 26k hp with normal raid gear + FR belt stacked with stam gems to be safe but +15% reduction from shadowform made that closer to 30k EH.


As spriest: Dispersion? Will it drop aggro or not? It would be a perfect cooldown if you don't have enough orbs.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Stormwarden » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:58 am

Zaluthar wrote:As spriest: Dispersion? Will it drop aggro or not?


I tank this on my shadowpriest and it's not bad at all. Dispersion doesn't drop aggro, it silences the priest and reduces all damage by 90%. It's nice to save for emergencies where Keleseth is empowered and you're short on orbs temporarily for some reason. Dispersion only lasts 6 seconds. So if I'm running to the other side of the room and he's empowered and I think I might be short on orbs I'll pop it to make sure I survive until I get in range of a couple more orbs.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Tebin » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:11 am

Haven't downed him, but I've got 2p to throw in...

We two-tanked him, me (paladin) on the melee bosses, and a DK on the shadow guy. Once the DK got the hang of things his bit went really well - I looked forward to the shadow guy getting empowered since it gave me a stress-free 30s.

We begun with rogue tricksing on the DK and just wailing on the shadow guy to give him a giant threat lead. Hunter would MD a few killing shots too. After that we bloodlusted when shadow became empowered, since there's no movement required for that bit, and melee can just rotation spam.

Our persistant problem has been the static orbs. On ten man we had two people assigned to them, but somehow even with two they still fucked up. Apparently it's do-able with one person on static orbs in 10 man, so I think we'll go with one, with the explicit instructions that he's not even to look at damaging the bosses if there are static orbs about.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby hoho » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:26 am

Pets of any kind work great for the bombs (hunter, dk, lock). Just assign it to one and it'll keep it floating. Casters can also wand them.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Baelik » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:38 pm

Well the enrage timer on this thing, like suggested, is quite generous. On our first successful attempt, we could afford to have 3 tanks, 2 healers and 1 really good DPS focusing entirely on the kinetic bombs leaving us with just 4 DPS on actual damage duty. We were getting close to the enrage timer but we managed to get this down with relative ease with this setup.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Vixon » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:58 am

Just want to confirm this. Simply having a pet auto attack an orb will keep it afloat? We have a hunter and a warlock in raid, if this is the case, would make our lives much easier if we could just send them on the orbs and focus more on DPSing the boss.

Also, (for the 2 tank strategy) wanted to know with a warrior and pally tank, could the warrior possibly do the Keleseth tanking? I think I slightly outgear him, and want to make it as easy as possible. This fight has been a roadblock for us thus far.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Maat » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:07 am

It's fine as long as their ranged weapon skill is maxed - the main responsibility of the Keleseth tank is picking up as many orbs as humanly possible.
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