[25/10] Blood Prince Council

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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Belloc » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Belarkan wrote:I must done something wrong tanking Keleseth.

I tried to pick the orbs, but most of the time lost aggro against healers or SPriest.
I spent most of my time running after the orbs, not being able to catch them and once I came by them, well, healers still have a clear threat lead so orb moved away and I hardly get one once Keleseth gets the focus.

You start losing aggro on orbs as they get low on health. This just means you need to pick new ones up.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Threatco » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:39 pm

Stupid question.

How does killing them work?

You can only attack 1 out of 3. Which ever one is empowered.

They don't share health do they?

When one is empowered a 2nd time he goes back to the health he was when he last lost empower?

So you work on 1 at a time? Does it matter which one dies first? Is there any Council of Iron aspect to it?

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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Argali » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:17 pm

The share a health pool. Once you kill the empowered one, they all die.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Shathus » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:18 am

Argali wrote:The share a health pool. Once you kill the empowered one, they all die.


Not that it really matters, but if it helps, think of it has you're attacking Invocation of Blood which rotates between possessing 3 bodies. The Invocation of Blood has the HP and that's what you're trying to kill. Hitting a non-empowered Prince is just beating on an already dead corpse.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Auralius » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:00 am

We had difficulties with Blood Prince Council for a couple days until we tried this strat.

Note that this was on 10 man as we do not raid 25 mans.

We had two tanks, me(Prot Pally) and my accomplis a DK Tank. Our major brick wall was the ranged tank. We don't have a raiding Lock, we tried with a Shadow Priest and Boomkin but there were deaths at the first Empowered Shadow Lance.

We heard some guilds used 3 tanks, putting a DK on the ranged one since he can Anti-Magic cooldown if needed, and his ranged abilities are ideal for picking up nuclei... the problem was, we didn't have a 3rd tank to bring in.

What we ended up doing was having me tank BOTH melee bosses and the DK tank the ranged one. The damage I took was intensive, but healable. We were running with 3 healers. We got them to 15% the first time we tried this, and downed the boss the very next attempt.

After the kill you can imagine the chatter about how OP Paladin tanks are set in, tanking 2 bosses at once is pretty funny.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Heni » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:24 am

Yea we go 3 tank strat with DK tank tanking shadow damage boss. It funny at times he has 7 or 8 orbs on him taking 0 damage. We 2 heal every fight in the game though on 10 man so we still have 5 dps with this setup so it works. 4 dps would seem a bit of a pain. 3 tanks just makes the healing a lot easier, I guess 2 tanking as previous poster works just as well with 3 healers but you will be taking more damage. So hence we went the route that we figured would also work the best come HM.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Belloc » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:44 pm

3 tanks is too much, imo. My undergeared off-spec Off-tank handled the two melee mobs without much issue, and I believe we were two healing it.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Karnadas » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:55 pm

On 10man my co-tank warrior holds Taldaram and Valanar, and I, the prot pally, take Keleseth.

On 25man, the warrior takes Taldaram, our kitty goes bear and takes Valanar (he has a tank spec and tank gear) and I still take Keleseth. Super easy!

I've also downed this fight on my shaman on 25man with a prot pally on Keleseth, DK on Taldaram and warrior on Valanar.

I find that tanks, or people with extra threat, do better on keleseth since it seems easier to gather orbs. At one point I was at 8 stacks, and if it reduces shadow damage by 35% per application, I was avoiding nearly 97% of the damage.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Baelik » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:48 am

Late but yea, thought I'd share some of my observations:

- Do not Tank Keleseth in melee range while he is empowered. It is very likely that dpsers might let off some AoE spells that may pop your purple balloons.

- To minimize incoming damage, focus on the balloons to keep 4 balloons on you at all times.

- Main Empowered ability to watch out for is Shock Vortex. When Valanar is empowered keep as many balloons as you can get early on so you don't have to run into the raid to pick up new balloons when Empowered Shock Vortex is up.

- If you are not able to spend time generating threat amidst all the running around ask your DPS to watch Omen carefully for the first few times Keleseth is empowered. Generally Rogues and Hunters should open on him with MD/ToT on you.

- Two abilities for Generating threat. Hammer of Wrath and SoR:
a. Hammer of Wrath is up when he is not empowered. Put Keleseth on focus if you don't already do that and macro your HoW to hit focus ie. /cast [@focus] Hammer of Wrath.
b. SoR when you run through him to get to the other side. Save Judgements & Exorcism for picking up the Balloons or helping with Kinetic bombs in your area. I tend to save HotR for a group of balloons clumped on anyone else.

Btw, just a newbish question since I didn't get to try it and I might have overlooked it here. Does Consecration keep the Kinetic bombs hovering?
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby hoho » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:35 am

Avengeance wrote:And a ranged tank threat isnt that great.
I tanked it yesterday on 10-man without any tot/MD on my spriest that gest 30+8% threat reduction from talents. I pretty much kept up my normal rotation and threw a few rank2 SWP's on the orbs when they were neraby. He got empowered third I was so far ahead with threat I could pretty much forget about it for the rest of the fight and run around picking orbs while dps'ing other bosses :P

Yea, I had only 26k hp with normal raid gear + FR belt stacked with stam gems to be safe but +15% reduction from shadowform made that closer to 30k EH.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Argali » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:25 am

Baelik wrote:Late but yea, thought I'd share some of my observations:

- Do not Tank Keleseth in melee range while he is empowered. It is very likely that dpsers might let off some AoE spells that may pop your purple balloons.

- To minimize incoming damage, focus on the balloons to keep 4 balloons on you at all times.

- Main Empowered ability to watch out for is Shock Vortex. When Valanar is empowered keep as many balloons as you can get early on so you don't have to run into the raid to pick up new balloons when Empowered Shock Vortex is up.

- If you are not able to spend time generating threat amidst all the running around ask your DPS to watch Omen carefully for the first few times Keleseth is empowered. Generally Rogues and Hunters should open on him with MD/ToT on you.

- Two abilities for Generating threat. Hammer of Wrath and SoR:
a. Hammer of Wrath is up when he is not empowered. Put Keleseth on focus if you don't already do that and macro your HoW to hit focus ie. /cast [@focus] Hammer of Wrath.
b. SoR when you run through him to get to the other side. Save Judgements & Exorcism for picking up the Balloons or helping with Kinetic bombs in your area. I tend to save HotR for a group of balloons clumped on anyone else.

Btw, just a newbish question since I didn't get to try it and I might have overlooked it here. Does Consecration keep the Kinetic bombs hovering?


Don't forget that according to the latest tps work, HotR does more dps/tps than SoR once you get a certain amount of gear.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Baelik » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:57 am

Generally I wouldn't worry bout threat on Keleseth. But I have a monstrosity called a well geared fury warrior. He keeps me on my toes. Good thing they wear plate and have relatively high health pools.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Shoju » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:44 am

I wanted to post some info about my guilds 10 man kill. We did it a LOT different it seems than a lot of guilds that I'm seeing.

It was finally a night where we had good DPS.

3 tanks. Myself, another pally tank, and a druid tank.

I had Tal,
The other pally had Val
The bear had Kess

Each tank had a healer, with the Val tank (in the middle) having a paladin (who could cheat and heal both tanks).

I had a resto shaman
Other Pally had a Holy Pally
Bear had a Disc Priest

We had a mage on bomb duty full time. If he had the bombs handled, he would toss a shot or two at a boss, but his job first and foremost was keeping the bombs in the air. We had 2 drop during the raid, 1 in an empty part of the room (we let it drop on purpose) and one dropped 20seconds before the kill (we were getting close to enrage)

We had a DK, a Cat, and a Shadow Priest on the bosses full time. We killed the princes with 19 seconds left on the enrage timer, but the kill was clockwork. The biggest problem that we had going into the kill was keeping the Kesseleth tank upright. It was more movement than a normal ranged tank would have had, but it also gave us a little bit of wiggle room on the HP of the Kess tank.

We Bloodlusted at the beginning of the first Taldaram phase.












Now, I'm looking for info from another 10 man tank here. We have currently been using this strat because the night we tried to solo tank the melee (someone on here said that they did) we ended up with a dead melee tank.

What kind of gearing level would you need to tank both melee princes? I'm currently at 40k and change using a tank weapon, though I find myself tanking more and more with a DPS weapon (251dps weapon > 232 tank weapon) and I'm just under 39k unbuffed when wear the DPS weapon.


For this fight, I have been wearing my Armor trinket, and I try to keep my cooldowns up in a steady rotation, and I was running SS on myself since I didn't have the holy paladin. Tanking 1 didn't seem to hurt too much, but I'm not sure if I'm able to tank 2. Anyone give me an idea if it is possible?
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Shathus » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:14 am

We have not been able to down this fight yet, so take my advice with a grain (or handful) of salt. I've been tanking Tal and Val while either our DK tank or a ranged tank has been on Kel. However, probably 99% of the wipes have been due to the Kel tank dying from an empowered shadow lance, for whatever reason. The only time I've died before others is when a healer (or two) go down. The long backstory just to state that I believe my gear to be a good example of what can survive the damage while not being maxed out in ToC25 heroic or ICC 25 gear.

Unfortunately it looks like I logged out in my heroic gear. I think this is my normal gear. The first is my 'main' set and the 2nd is the EH/armor set which I was using on these attempts. Can't remember all off the top of my head, was around 46-47k health and just about 37k armor with buffs/totems.

Damage taken logs from many wipes

On our first attempts another week, I thought I remember Val hitting for like 14k and Tal hitting for 10k, though I don't remember if being empowered makes the melee hit harder, which would affect that.

Hope something in all that rambling helps :)

And for anything else who sees something in the logs as to what we're doing wrong, please let me know :) Our best attempt so far is 46%. We tend to make it about a cycle through (everyone gets empowered) and then people die.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby balloonknot » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:43 pm

I'll put in another vote for 2 tanking this on 10 man, i've been taking both the melee princes and our OT takes keleseth (druid or DK usually).

We have been using 3 healers for this fight although most ICC10 fights we 2 heal.

We have an assigned orb juggler for the kinetic bombs, we use a hunter for the range and the fact that his pet handles the first one without needing to worry about it. Pretty sure so far he just sticks to orbs and doesn't bother dpsing much.

The difference between wiping and downing for us was the keleseth tank never stopping orb collection, have em get every bloody orb in the room as a first priority with kelseth threat a distant 2nd priority. Early attempts we were having the OT try to keep a certain number on them, didn't work out too well as one would always fall off or get pulled off during empowered and the OT would just flop over dead.

Threat on keleseth can be an issue but with no enrage timer we really didn't worry about it, if the dps run out of threat they just stop, we did have a hunter MD killshot keleseth whenever they could to help out the OT.
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