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[25/10] Blood Prince Council

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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:43 pm

themarshal wrote:In 10-man, what are the benefits to having a ranged tank on Keleseth vs. just a normal tank? Simply the ease of which they can grab the orbs? And what benefit is there in having a warlock in that role as opposed to any other ranged DPS?

I'm trying to figure out if it would be easier for me (pally tank) to take Keleseth and run around grabbing the orbs, and our MT (warrior) to take the other two. Taldaram was meleeing me pretty regularly for 10k or so. Not sure how our warrior was doing on Valanar, but I imagine that not having to split the healing 3-ways would be beneficial. Now we just gotta focus on not getting smashed by the Shock Vortexes.


Warlock instant cast dots and demonic pact to reduce damage intake?

They've changed Keleseth to no longer melee, which will make it easier for ranged classes to tank him -- on the first night our hunter tank got one-shot a couple times, so we ended up going 3 traditional tanks in 25, and 2 traditional tanks in 10 (one on ranged, the other double-tanking the other two. In our first 10 kill I ended up solo tanking the last third of the fight; this isn't hard as long as people avoid avoidable damage).

If you have a pro ranged tank who knows how to actually do the job right they're certainly viable for the fight, but there's no reason not to just use regular tanks for the job either.

They've also further reduced the melee damage in 10m to make double-tanking even more viable.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby rocket » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:41 pm

the 10 man was a 3 shot, and our 25 was a 2 shot, but it was kinda funny for us...

I took the advice and tanked keleseth for both nights, and a pally tank seems to take the 3rd prince out of the picture. It was interesting since the assumption was that the fight is "intended" to have a ranged tank ala warlock or hunter, not a tank sporting 55+K hp raid buffed. When I said how we were going to attempt it (and as the RL, I get the chance to say it), I know that people thought that I was going off on the "Pallies can do anything" rant again. Well, we downed him pretty easily and got the Orb Whisperer achievement to boot.

To get that much needed initial threat, Full TotT, MD, AW with a hardcore threat rotation until the orbs began to spawn, which then became a run around and HoR orbs. Id do drive-by HotR/ShoR on Keleseth, and had the salv up and used once during the fight. the running around and HoR orbs was kind of a relaxing thing to do in a boss fight...much easier than the add tanking in Sarth 3D!
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Avengeance » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:24 am

Is it just me who was getting taunt immunes from Hand of Reckoning on teh dark orbs or am I tanking a different encounter? Hand of reckoning surely wasnt getting the attention of the orbs for me, had to be a direct damage attack.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Alanyor » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:54 am

HoR doesn't work, confirmed.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Xfighter » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:56 am

As stated somewhere in the topic, it'll only work if the orbs are not currently targeting another person.

On our 10's kill last night, I'm 90% sure it worked so long as the orb wasn't already on someone.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby rocket » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Xfighter wrote:As stated somewhere in the topic, it'll only work if the orbs are not currently targeting another person.

On our 10's kill last night, I'm 90% sure it worked so long as the orb wasn't already on someone.


i am more than 90% sure since that is what i did...but yes, i HoR'd them on spawn. The HoR was to apply direct damage, not for a fixate.

make sure none of the raiders are ever targetting the orbs - leave that to you. you can not taunt them off, in fact as far as i can tell like being mentioned that you have to direct damage them off if they link with someone else. Judge/ShoR and be in range and they switch.

it is possible to keep them spawning slower than you are grabbing...i guess like the slime pools in putricide for abom tanks...

oh, i use tuskarrs and i know many of you use PoJ. it certainly helps, if not a requirement.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Gamingdevil » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:05 pm

rocket wrote:
Xfighter wrote:As stated somewhere in the topic, it'll only work if the orbs are not currently targeting another person.

On our 10's kill last night, I'm 90% sure it worked so long as the orb wasn't already on someone.


i am more than 90% sure since that is what i did...but yes, i HoR'd them on spawn. The HoR was to apply direct damage, not for a fixate.


HoR doesn't deal damage when the target is immune to the taunt. That's why it only works if it hasn't acquired a target yet, since then you would be the first to show hostile action against it.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Argali » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:43 pm

The benefits of having ranged tank (especially warlocks) is :

They have to move less.
Locks can use rank1 dots(so they are constantly the last person that damaged nuclei)
Can constantly generate threat on keseleth

Oh boy, it was fun trying to catch orbs, when healers are screaming that empowered shadow lances are doing massive damage, and watching dps catch up on omen, when he becomes empowered 2nd.

Having a normal tank do it is possible, but it's just much more convenient to get a ranged to do it.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Avengeance » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:52 pm

I really dont see the benefit of using a lock tank, you still have to move to find those orbs spawning on opposite side, and most tanks have the same 30 yard spells as a caster do, and they are hell of a lot easier to keep alive if anything goes wrong. And a ranged tank threat isnt that great... and they dont have a taunt when people DO pull. Using a normal tank you just have to blow all your threat CDs and get some MDs and TOTTs at pull and you are set for the rest of the fight, occasionally some 10k dps will near u in threat, but you can salve them a few times and everything is fine.

I played a DK tank and Pala tank myself in the fight and I find it easier to do it as a DK (a big choice of ranged pulls), although my guild's warrior enjoyed it as well as he just chain charge/intervene to pick orbs up.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Belloc » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:34 pm

Argali wrote:The benefits of having ranged tank (especially warlocks) is :

They have to move less.
Locks can use rank1 dots(so they are constantly the last person that damaged nuclei)
Can constantly generate threat on keseleth

Oh boy, it was fun trying to catch orbs, when healers are screaming that empowered shadow lances are doing massive damage, and watching dps catch up on omen, when he becomes empowered 2nd.

Having a normal tank do it is possible, but it's just much more convenient to get a ranged to do it.

Wings + attacking Keleseth = plenty of threat. Hammer of wrath from range = plenty more threat.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Arjuna » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:50 pm

downed them in 10-man today, was an awesome fight. I was stuck on tanking Edward...err...I mean Taldaram (hey, a glittering vampire...) and lock on Keleseth. Went smooth as butter...after the first few tries... :)
HUZZAH! How many points do I receive? :D
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Belarkan » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:43 am

I must done something wrong tanking Keleseth.

I tried to pick the orbs, but most of the time lost aggro against healers or SPriest.
I spent most of my time running after the orbs, not being able to catch them and once I came by them, well, healers still have a clear threat lead so orb moved away and I hardly get one once Keleseth gets the focus.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Chicken » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:16 am

Belarkan wrote:I must done something wrong tanking Keleseth.

I tried to pick the orbs, but most of the time lost aggro against healers or SPriest.
I spent most of my time running after the orbs, not being able to catch them and once I came by them, well, healers still have a clear threat lead so orb moved away and I hardly get one once Keleseth gets the focus.
Hammer of Wrath works great for initial aggro on Keleseth since he should be at 1% health until he gets empowered.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Shathus » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:54 am

We tried this on 10 the first time last night. At first we started with me on Tal, our DK on Val, and a lock on Kel and 3 healers. Generally started ok, but once Kel became empowered, we couldn't keep the lock up. After wiping a number of times, I suggested trying 2 tanks, I took Val and Tal and our DK took Kel. While I was definitely taking some hits with the 2 princes on me, I never except when we were already wiping (except one time when I ran in and pulled before people were ready :oops: ).

The main issue we still had was losing the DK tank when Kel got empowered 2nd. I think he was having trouble managing aggro on both the orbs and the prince. (One wipe 2 people got killed by shadow lances when he lost aggro picking up orbs).

I think our best attempt was 48%, and that was because Tal got empowered 2nd, so we just pushed off the Empowered Shadow Lances til later heh. Any recommendations on what we might be doing wrong, or could improve? I only remembered to logs the last 2 attempts, neither were particularly good attempts but you can see what the dps/healing/tanking was like I guess if it helps.

logs

For comparison's sake, I wore the armor trinket for the 1st attempt, and a 2nd stam trinket for the 2nd
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Neara » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:54 pm

Assign one Raidmember to pull Orbs to your tank the whole fight. (Make sure he doesn't use DoTs)

If your tank has problems holding Aggro on kel just don't dps him. This fight isn't a DPS race you should still easily beat the enrage timer if you only do damage on the other two princes.
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