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[25/10] Blood Prince Council

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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:17 am

hoho wrote:My spriest was assigned to bouncing them at first but it was full of fail as I only have two DD spells, one at 5.5s and other at 12s cooldown and it was barely enough to keep them at one spot. Arcane missiles seemed to work great though.


Wanding works as well. The balls bounce based on the number of hits, not the size of the damage.

Taeron wrote:We tried the feral on shadow casting elf while I was on the other two. However, once it was time to dps feral's target, the aggro was lost. Like right away. We had to end soon so I couldn't get full communication through whether it was chasing orbs or just unable to do aggro, so I ask here - how is the tank on that darkfallen supposed to operate? Just build up aggro from the start and then chase orbs when it goes empowered or is there some other trick to it?

Thanks.


You'll need to be gathering orbs before the empowerment or you'll die to the first cast, but you also need to build threat. The bear may not have built enough threat initially; we had one lolwipe when I was so focused on chasing orbs that I neglected to build threat on bossman.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Varuk » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:06 am

Can confirm that you can still solo tank the two melee adds in 25m if you're geared enough. Our tank on Valanar died somehow on the 25m kill, I taunted and tanked both Valanar and Taldaram until the kill for about a minute and a half. It actually wasn't that rough.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Senador » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:02 am

We tanked Taldaram off on the side to make the orbs farther away; Valanar in the middle and Keleseth on the left near where he started; but he occassionally wandered off as the ranged tank picked up orbs.

A few things:

We bloodlusted when it was on Taldaram, as he didn't have the "All melee get away" nonsense that Valanar has, and that way there wouldn't be a threat issue that bloodlusting the ranged tank's target might cause.

Divine Guardian/Sacrifice is amazing for the fight. With the way the encounter works, each Prince gets empowered about once every two minutes, and you should be able to Divine Guardian/Sac one of the two empowered Shock Vortex every time he gets it to help cut down some damage for those spread out, but not quite 30 yards away.

Their attack speed is relatively slow (2.0 base) compared to the rest of the instance. Taldaram and Valanar hit decently hard but slowly, however tank damage should be the least of your worries. In fact tanking them is pretty trivial; it ammounts to "Grab Prince, run away from Vortex, yell at DPS for being bad."
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby fafhrd » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:38 am

hoho wrote:My spriest was assigned to bouncing them at first but it was full of fail as I only have two DD spells, one at 5.5s and other at 12s cooldown and it was barely enough to keep them at one spot.


Wanding should work fine as an spriest though - no need to waste mana on them anyway.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:55 am

Senador wrote:We bloodlusted when it was on Taldaram, as he didn't have the "All melee get away" nonsense that Valanar has, and that way there wouldn't be a threat issue that bloodlusting the ranged tank's target might cause.


How did you deal with his empowered fire orb? We got a really clumsy kill on 10 after a couple of wipes, so didn't really get a good feel for how to handle it, but on the kill both deaths were people who got fried by the fire orb. If you're tanking him over to the side and he throws his orb out, presumably ranged alone are enough to get in between the fire orb and the person it's fixating, to deplete its charges? Otherwise if melee have to come help soak charges it somewhat defeats the point of lusting then I guess.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Nekkos » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:13 am

Rhiannon wrote:
Senador wrote:We bloodlusted when it was on Taldaram, as he didn't have the "All melee get away" nonsense that Valanar has, and that way there wouldn't be a threat issue that bloodlusting the ranged tank's target might cause.


How did you deal with his empowered fire orb? We got a really clumsy kill on 10 after a couple of wipes, so didn't really get a good feel for how to handle it, but on the kill both deaths were people who got fried by the fire orb. If you're tanking him over to the side and he throws his orb out, presumably ranged alone are enough to get in between the fire orb and the person it's fixating, to deplete its charges? Otherwise if melee have to come help soak charges it somewhat defeats the point of lusting then I guess.


I started as Ret in our 10 man before swapping to tank Keleseth for a kill and it was pretty easy to "cut off" the empowered orb as melee enough that it didn't obliterate its target. We had three melee so if all three of us got in front of it we could reduce the damage a good bit and let our ranged/healers handle the rest while we got back on the boss. I imagine it will be even easier to do this in 25 given how many melee our group tends to run. It's still not necessarily an ideal time to BL/heroism, but compared to the other two bosses, it is probably your best option.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Senador » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:08 pm

We honestly didn't have any issues with the empowered orb; we had a larger issue with the empowered Shock Vortex.

However, we had him face the wall, and with the way our ranged were spread througout the room, the orb essentially had to go through the melee cluster to even get towards the ranged helping defuse it to begin with, and without having to do wierd possitioning things.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Wrathy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:43 pm

We ended up having quite a bit of difficulty with the orb targeting a ranged dps who was moderately close to the boss and just rock him in 10s. It took us a few attempts to work it out, but what we did was have specific positioning when Taladarm was empowered. For most of the fight, we would have the bosses spread out, the ranged in a circle around the room with the healers in the inner circle, and the melee behind the specific boss who was empowered.

When Taladarm got empowered, we had the healers collapse on taladarm and heal from there. This gave us 6 people in and 4 out. The healers moved with the orb after it spawned back to their original spread out positions and the damage was negligible as a result. Its on the tank to watch for shock vortexes during this time because you will have a lot of people in one spot and one can blow.

Other than that, we found that three healing this fight made it trivial, while two healing it made it more like a hard mode.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Sathoris » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:49 am

This fight was quite trivial for us.
The key on this fight is to have a good range tank that knows how to do stuff.

The rest of boss abilities can be countered easily. It ain't hard to follow the big flame ball and to move out and spread when the shock is about to come.

Also what you might want to have in mind is your Taldaram to move depending on where the Shocks are placed in the room so you have usually a clean runway for the big flame ball (in case he is empowered).

Assign 2 ranged dps (pref hunter / arcane mage) (in 25 man), 1 in 10 man to take care of the kinetic bombs.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby hoho » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:36 am

fuzzygeek wrote:Wanding works as well. The balls bounce based on the number of hits, not the size of the damage.
True but wand speed isn't exactly stellar. Arcane mage throwing AM at them with missile barrage do the work in fraction of the time and DPS loss.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Scrawn » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:10 am

We found putting a hunters pet on the orb meant you could forget about it for its duration as the pet auto-bounced it at ground level
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby themarshal » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm

In 10-man, what are the benefits to having a ranged tank on Keleseth vs. just a normal tank? Simply the ease of which they can grab the orbs? And what benefit is there in having a warlock in that role as opposed to any other ranged DPS?

I'm trying to figure out if it would be easier for me (pally tank) to take Keleseth and run around grabbing the orbs, and our MT (warrior) to take the other two. Taldaram was meleeing me pretty regularly for 10k or so. Not sure how our warrior was doing on Valanar, but I imagine that not having to split the healing 3-ways would be beneficial. Now we just gotta focus on not getting smashed by the Shock Vortexes.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Varuk » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:27 pm

The key thing I've seen so far on grabbing the orbs is the use of dots. Our warlock tank tried using searing pain to pick them up, it wasn't working because they weren't sticking on him, our mage tried using ice lance to pick them up, same problem, our warrior tank tried picking them up with melee attacks, same issue, but the moment we went to a warlock using corruption they stuck on him. Other forum posts seem to reiterate that -- you need dots on the orbs to reliably keep them on you. This appears to be why paladins (and probably DKs) are able to tank Keleseth, because of our Holy Vengeance dot, and I imagine DKs with their disease would be decently well themselves.

So far, that seems to be the key trick to tanking Keleseth -- dotting the orbs and not just tagging them.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Meloree » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:36 pm

Interesting... I just ran around on the alt raid doing FFF and Growl to pick them up, and occasionally mangling Keleseth as I ran by. I didn't seem to have a problem keeping orbs on me. They'd drift off occasionally, but a growl or FFF would get them right back. The bigger issue was threat, but MD'd killshots, and tricks when he was active kept me from having to do too much work.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby dewkstraykr » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:07 pm

Varuk wrote:This appears to be why paladins (and probably DKs) are able to tank Keleseth, because of our Holy Vengeance dot, and I imagine DKs with their disease would be decently well themselves.

So far, that seems to be the key trick to tanking Keleseth -- dotting the orbs and not just tagging them.


I didnt find that to be the case at all. On 25, I tanked Keleseth with seal of light up, and the best advice I can give you to make a resto druid run laps around the outside edge of the area, F Fire the dark nucleus and bring them to you. I would avengers shield them off him every half lap or so and I had 4-6 on me the entire fight :) This also allowed me to melee tank Keleseth for the first 40 seconds of the fight at least, and I never had threat issues with the MD kill shots :)

Dotting up the nucleus' is counter productive, the less damage you do to them the better - they kill themselves slowly already, the less damage you need to do to pick them up the longer they are alive to keep the debuff on you.
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