[25/10] Blood Prince Council

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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Steve » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:16 pm

The downside to using a melee tank on Keleseth is that they really cannot generate threat while Keleseth is empowered, but then I suppose maybe they should be more focused on picking up purple balls anyway. I suppose it's not much of a downside.

Going into the fight we planned on and tried using our DK tank. I assumed (having healed warlock tanks in TBC -- that was a serious pita) that the traditional tank survivability would be much better. But that simply wasn't our experience. We had a much easier time with the warlock.

Perhaps other improvements were what made a bigger difference in the outcomes, and not so much the switch in tanks.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Steve » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:18 pm

Malthrax wrote:If Kelseth spends 2/3's of the fight at 1hp, does that mean Hammer of Wrath is usable on him and, if so, would it be viable to use Glyph of Hammer of Wrath?


Hammer of wrath is usable, yes. Using a special glyph for a fight this easy seems like overkill, but have at it.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby wingman » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:20 pm

Nekkos wrote:Just to clarify, but does that mean that you guys doubled up Taldaram/Valanar on one tank (10m)?



This is what my group did. I believe other people have had someone tank Kelseth AND one of the others, but to me that just seems troublesome as you'll be moving two bosses around quite a bit while chasing nuclei to aggro and such. It just seems much more elegant to be stationary tanking Taldaram and Valanar and let the tank that has to run around alot only worry about threat on one mob.

Also, I can verify that hammer of wrath definitely works on any of the Princes when they are at 1 HP. They take full damage from the attack, thus generating the full amount of threat with it, it's just that all that damage is "absorbed" or something instead of killing them.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Varuk » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:25 pm

Some things I noted on 10m while trying to work around our fail warlock:

Valanar and Taldaram are definitely solo tankable if you're geared enough. I solo tanked both of them for about 5 pulls and while it got a little hairy at spots AD only proc'd once and that was on the first pull. It's definitely an aspect of out-gearing the fight, but if you want to you can do it.

While I was solo tanking the two melee mobs we tried putting our warrior tank on Keleseth. He reported having random misses and immunes when using certain abilities on the nuclei. He was not able to gather sufficient nuclei to be able to survive Keleseth's empowered shadow lance, even with 50k HP. Threat was also an "issue", but, as I pointed out, if we have to we could simply not attack at all during the Keleseth empowered stage and still kill the boss as long as Keleseth's tank lives. I wanted to try tanking Keleseth myself to see if maybe paladin abilities work out better at keeping the nuclei, but our warrior tank was an alt and was significantly less geared than I so the two melee mobs would just explode him and we didn't have a third tank character able to tank up.

Tanking Valanar near the stairs with your back to the stairs significantly lowered the amount of knockback experienced. Tanking Valanar with him facing the entrance and the melee between his back and the stairs would probably represent a decent DPS increase during his empower.

I'm not certain Glittering Sparks does anything notable. I saw several players receive the debuff over our attempts, but I never saw it tick for any damage, ever.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Kihra » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:10 pm

Steve wrote:The downside to using a melee tank on Keleseth is that they really cannot generate threat while Keleseth is empowered, but then I suppose maybe they should be more focused on picking up purple balls anyway. I suppose it's not much of a downside..


This is a non-issue. You will have a huge threat lead by the time Keleseth is empowered for the first time. At that point you can be away from him so melee don't cleave your nuclei, and they won't catch up to you on threat.

When he's not empowered, you can run back in and keep building more of a threat lead.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Threatco » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:24 pm

For the juggling, how much time do players spend attacking these things? Less then 30% of their time?
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Xfighter » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:32 pm

Just a tip: Do not hit the Kinetic bombs too high, as for us, it apparently went through the roof, pulled blood queen, and a pack of trash from a side hallway.

Not 100% sure if it was indeed the orb, but that's what our conclusion was other than some other random thing xD. Hopefully it's fixed soon, whatever it is.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Ulrik » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:42 pm

Killed in 25 today. While the fire dot isn't a cone directed at the tank it might turn out to be a good idea to face him away from the group anyway. That way when he casts Empowered Flame Sphere the melee will get hit first and could move with it some to absorb and shrink it down on it's way to the target.

Also you'll want at least 3 ranged and a few backups as Kinetic Bomb punters/bouncers assigned with sections to watch.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:06 pm

Varuk wrote:Some things I noted on 10m while trying to work around our fail warlock:

Valanar and Taldaram are definitely solo tankable if you're geared enough. I solo tanked both of them for about 5 pulls and while it got a little hairy at spots AD only proc'd once and that was on the first pull. It's definitely an aspect of out-gearing the fight, but if you want to you can do it.


We put Melee/Fire on the warrior tank and I did Orbs after reading some people's accounts of how HoR was terribly useful. Occasionally I'd have an orb switch off me to a healer or some random passer-by -- really not sure why, but a HoR was sufficient to bring it back for the rest of its duration.

On our kill the warrior dropped dead at 35%, and I ended up solo tanking the rest of the fight. Granted, I pretty much completely outgear 10m at this point, but paladin tanks are kind of ridiculous.

Xfighter wrote:Just a tip: Do not hit the Kinetic bombs too high, as for us, it apparently went through the roof, pulled blood queen, and a pack of trash from a side hallway.


This is reportedly a known issue. Happened to us too, which is kind of irritating.

The beachballs can spawn pretty far back on the stage, and whomever you put on ball duty has to be aware of what's going on, and not just pouring damages into the boss. I like that there are a few aspects of this fight that demand that players pay attention to the environment in a larger context than "is teh ground where I am standing on fire?"
Last edited by fuzzygeek on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Meloree » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:12 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
Xfighter wrote:Just a tip: Do not hit the Kinetic bombs too high, as for us, it apparently went through the roof, pulled blood queen, and a pack of trash from a side hallway.


This is reportedly a known issue. Happened to us too, which is kind of irritating. What odds a ticket'll help at all?


0.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:13 pm

Meloree wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:
Xfighter wrote:Just a tip: Do not hit the Kinetic bombs too high, as for us, it apparently went through the roof, pulled blood queen, and a pack of trash from a side hallway.


This is reportedly a known issue. Happened to us too, which is kind of irritating. What odds a ticket'll help at all?


0.


Rhetorical question :D
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Belloc » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:26 pm

Tanked Keleseth tonight.

Hand of Reckoning will aggro Dark Nuclei ONLY if they do not already have a target. Otherwise, you must do actual damage to them.

Seal of Vengeance is great for keeping them on you.

Try to save avenger's shield for if someone rips 2-3 off of you or if 2-3 manage to be close to each other. Doing this is totally awesome.

If you are not in melee range of Keleseth, it is perfectly safe to use exorcism on them.


Finally, hammer of wrath is awesome for extra boss threat while picking up new Nuclei.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby hoho » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:59 am

We used hunter as the ranged tank and it worked perfectly. Other two were tanked by two regular tanks. Hunter also helped bouncing around the balls and easily kept agro on him with killshot spam. One very helpful thing for us was that we had ranged hit the orbs when they were far from hunter and drag them closer. They seem to stick to anyone who has hit them last with direct damage ability, though I've heard dots work too. On bouncing balls only direct damage works. My spriest was assigned to bouncing them at first but it was full of fail as I only have two DD spells, one at 5.5s and other at 12s cooldown and it was barely enough to keep them at one spot. Arcane missiles seemed to work great though. We had 3 healers for the fight but might handle with less if we stack cooldowns on ranged tank on the pull when it has zero orbs.


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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby Taeron » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:26 am

We tried the feral on shadow casting elf while I was on the other two. However, once it was time to dps feral's target, the aggro was lost. Like right away. We had to end soon so I couldn't get full communication through whether it was chasing orbs or just unable to do aggro, so I ask here - how is the tank on that darkfallen supposed to operate? Just build up aggro from the start and then chase orbs when it goes empowered or is there some other trick to it?

Thanks.
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Re: [25/10] Blood Prince Council

Postby dewkstraykr » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:10 am

In 25 tonight, I tanked Keleseth. It was an issue the first time not really sure what to expect threat wise, but basically I found that he doesnt hit very hard in his non empowered state (16-18k melee swings every 2.2-2.6 seconds). Also to note he didnt cast anything while I was in melee range as he was just auto attacking me (yet when empowered he would cast the 80k+ shadow spell as well as 45-50k odd melee hits).

So what I did was on the pull, HoW, run in, judge him to get vindication up asap, then just tanked him regularly for about 20 seconds - which was more than enough time to get 200k + aggro on him. We also had a hunter assigned to the north western corner for kinetic juggling, who chained a few Kill shot MDs to me and I happily had 400k threat by the 40 second mark. After that, I had a resto druid (or two) running around FF'ing the dark nucleus' and running to me, each time he would bring 2-3 and I would just AS them off him and quite happily have 3-6 on me the entire fight from then on.

When he was chosen to be empowered at the 40/80/120/160/200/240/280/320 second mark, I would just stand still 15-20 yards from him with my 3-6 nucleus and take between 8-12k shadow damage per cast, /yawn really.

After the first empowered rotation was gone from him, I would then again go back into melee range and happily tank him like any other trash mob, until 5-6 seconds till the next empowered change. At that point I would then stand at range to make sure he didnt hit me with the buff up, and if he didnt get it, back to melee tanking again (while AS'ing nucleus off the resto of course) :)
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