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[25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Aubade » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:09 am

Aubade wrote:So we tested this last night and from what we can tell the bite is a random chance for any persons on the top of the threat list (Excluding tanks).
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby nutron » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:39 am

Aubade wrote:
Aubade wrote:So we tested this last night and from what we can tell the bite is a random chance for any persons on the top of the threat list (Excluding tanks).


wrong.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Maat » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:43 am

Way to troll.

Anyway, Aubade's observation is same as we observed. Every attempt one of the top 3 in threat (besides the MT, and the OT wasn't trying to build threat) was first to be bitten.

It also seems that sacrificing an early dps (and b'ressing after of course) is probably the only way to fulfill the achievement.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Aubade » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:53 am

Maat wrote:Way to troll.

Anyway, Aubade's observation is same as we observed. Every attempt one of the top 3 in threat (besides the MT, and the OT wasn't trying to build threat) was first to be bitten.

It also seems that sacrificing an early dps (and b'ressing after of course) is probably the only way to fulfill the achievement.

Strangely enough, we killed this today. And I never gotten bitten, but I have 0 credit on my meta-achievement for it. Check my achievs, I have crimson halls, Neither of the "once bitten twice shy" Achievement.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby nutron » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:56 am

Then you did not observe correctly, because it does not pick the first target randomly.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Aubade » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:45 am

unless you have proof that says otherwise then you're wrong. I can guarantee you that despite who was second on the aggro list, it was always chosen randomly from what we assumed was the top 5 on the aggro list. We attempted to control it by having noone but a hunter dps for the first few seconds, and even though that hunter was second, someone else got it. Then the next attempt while the hunter was still 2nd on threat he did get it. So Like I said, unless you have proof otherwise I'm going to assume that you are wrong.

Oh and here's the logs if you'd like to browse them.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7ur7v ... 88&e=17799
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Ashym » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:22 am

How did you guys organise who to bite? We just said bite the melee then bite the ranged... and after a while it was just bite a dps and try aiming for a hunter or a rogue or something.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby hoho » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:33 am

On our 10-man run we pretty much bit people in DPS order from highest to lowest and called out on vent who bites who next.

I think on 25-man it'll be a "bit" more difficult though considering how many vampires there will be active by the end :P
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:06 am

Gaffer wrote:Killed tonight using a "Martyr strat." You can definitely gain rdps by sacrificing one of your bites and using a rebirth at some point during the encounter.


I'm trying to work out how? On 10 man I can understand it buys you another minute before all your players are MCed, but this shouldn't be a problem on 25 from what I understand. This timeline is correct isn't it?

00:15 - first bite - 1 bitten
01:15 - first frenzied bloodthirst
01:20 - second bite - 2 bitten
02:00 - first air phase
02:20 - second frenzied bloodthirst
02:25 - third bite - 4 bitten
03:25 - third frenzied bloodthirst
03:30 - fourth bite - 8 bitten
04:00 - second air phase
04:30 - fourth frenzied bloodthirst
04:35 - fifth bite - 16 bitten
05:30 - hard enrage
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Xequecal » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:46 am

Rhiannon wrote:Re: DeadMilliken

Is the damage on the tanks actually a concern on 25? Only tried it on 10 tonight, and the tank healing was definitely the more trivial part of managing the healing. Does she hit hard enough on 25 that tank survival is more an issue?


It honestly depends on what tanks you have. A big thing to remember is that Blood Mirror reflection damage is considered dealt by the MT, not the boss. That means with a Paladin MT the OT will take 10% extra from 1H spec, and a full 32% extra damage when Avenging Wrath is up. Using a DK MT also causes the OT to take 10-15% extra damage. If you use a Warrior or Druid MT you don't have this problem because their talents only multiply physical damage.

The OT also takes double damage from Shroud of Sorrow because he gets the standard AoE hit plus the reflection from the MT. He also takes extra damage from raidwide damage buffs like Arcane Empowerment via the same mechanic.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:13 am

Eh, not sure I buy that. Looking through the log from last night's 10 man kill (me MT, Zimira OT):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8ntz ... 408&e=7699

Filter: [{"eventTypes": [1], "targetNames": ["Rhiannon"]}, {"eventTypes": [1], "targetNames": ["Zimira"]}]

[20:41:05.948] Blood-Queen Lana'thel hits Rhiannon 13072
[20:41:06.774] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 12058 (A: 1014)

(12058 + 1014 = 13072 obv)

[20:41:06.803] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 2903 (R: 900)
[20:41:07.151] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 2903

I'm curious what happened here:

[20:41:08.371] Blood-Queen Lana'thel hits Rhiannon 11380
[20:41:08.766] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 2540 (R: 1350)
[20:41:09.109] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 8166 (A: 214)
[20:41:09.161] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 2540

The shroud of sorrow tick is mirrored completely, but that melee swing, only 8380 is mirrored (leaving it precisely 3000 damage short). Not sure if it's a parsing issue or what exactly's going on there.


And looking at Zimira's damage taken, he only took 1 tick of Shroud of Sorrow, and that was prior to getting Mirror, seems like the Mirror target is immune to the standard AoE tick.

So yeah, anyway. I don't buy that 1hs etc affects the damage the offtank takes.

Hm, I only used AW once in the 3 attempts (which given nature of fight was probably a bit negligent) but looking at the logs for this period in time:

[20:34:30.494] Rhiannon casts Avenging Wrath
[20:34:31.115] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 569 (A: 2050, R: 1350)
[20:34:32.915] Blood-Queen Lana'thel hits Rhiannon 11663 (B: 1882)
[20:34:33.093] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 959 (A: 2034, R: 900)
[20:34:33.537] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 6959 (A: 4704) 6959 + 4704 = 11633
[20:34:34.897] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Delirious Slash Zimira 1511 er, 569 + 959 = 1528, which is close I guess...
[20:34:35.135] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 1277 (A: 1341, R: 1350)
[20:34:35.500] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 1277
[20:34:37.140] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 2993 (R: 900)
[20:34:37.546] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 2993

Anyway, no increase in hit size on OT due to popping wings.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Sathoris » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:25 am

Rhiannon wrote:
Gaffer wrote:Killed tonight using a "Martyr strat." You can definitely gain rdps by sacrificing one of your bites and using a rebirth at some point during the encounter.


I'm trying to work out how? On 10 man I can understand it buys you another minute before all your players are MCed, but this shouldn't be a problem on 25 from what I understand. This timeline is correct isn't it?

00:15 - first bite - 1 bitten
01:15 - first frenzied bloodthirst
01:20 - second bite - 2 bitten
02:00 - first air phase
02:20 - second frenzied bloodthirst
02:25 - third bite - 4 bitten
03:25 - third frenzied bloodthirst
03:30 - fourth bite - 8 bitten
04:00 - second air phase
04:30 - fourth frenzied bloodthirst
04:35 - fifth bite - 16 bitten
05:30 - hard enrage


On 25 man does the timer change ? or does do you get more then 1 person bitten ?

Because this obviously don't make sense, this gets "hard" only for the 10 man, and i believe this timeline you mentioned is related to 10 man.

If this is the same for 25 man then i don't see any problem in managing who gets button and who don't and pioritise the order, micro-manage every dps as in You will bite: X 1st, Y 2nd, Z 3rd and so on and simply hope you have the DPS to beat the Hard Enrage timer.

We had an easy job with her in our 10 man yesterday (Wednesday) and we noticed that the fight itself is quite trivial, way undertuned, and with a good communication you can 1-2 shot it.

Blood princes are way harder then this end-wing boss.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Xequecal » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:26 am

Rhiannon wrote:Eh, not sure I buy that. Looking through the log from last night's 10 man kill (me MT, Zimira OT):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8ntz ... 408&e=7699

Filter: [{"eventTypes": [1], "targetNames": ["Rhiannon"]}, {"eventTypes": [1], "targetNames": ["Zimira"]}]

[20:41:05.948] Blood-Queen Lana'thel hits Rhiannon 13072
[20:41:06.774] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 12058 (A: 1014)

(12058 + 1014 = 13072 obv)

[20:41:06.803] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 2903 (R: 900)
[20:41:07.151] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 2903

I'm curious what happened here:

[20:41:08.371] Blood-Queen Lana'thel hits Rhiannon 11380
[20:41:08.766] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 2540 (R: 1350)
[20:41:09.109] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 8166 (A: 214)
[20:41:09.161] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 2540

The shroud of sorrow tick is mirrored completely, but that melee swing, only 8380 is mirrored (leaving it precisely 3000 damage short). Not sure if it's a parsing issue or what exactly's going on there.


And looking at Zimira's damage taken, he only took 1 tick of Shroud of Sorrow, and that was prior to getting Mirror, seems like the Mirror target is immune to the standard AoE tick.

So yeah, anyway. I don't buy that 1hs etc affects the damage the offtank takes.

Hm, I only used AW once in the 3 attempts (which given nature of fight was probably a bit negligent) but looking at the logs for this period in time:

[20:34:30.494] Rhiannon casts Avenging Wrath
[20:34:31.115] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 569 (A: 2050, R: 1350)
[20:34:32.915] Blood-Queen Lana'thel hits Rhiannon 11663 (B: 1882)
[20:34:33.093] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 959 (A: 2034, R: 900)
[20:34:33.537] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 6959 (A: 4704) 6959 + 4704 = 11633
[20:34:34.897] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Delirious Slash Zimira 1511 er, 569 + 959 = 1528, which is close I guess...
[20:34:35.135] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 1277 (A: 1341, R: 1350)
[20:34:35.500] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 1277
[20:34:37.140] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Shroud of Sorrow Rhiannon 2993 (R: 900)
[20:34:37.546] Rhiannon Blood Mirror Zimira 2993

Anyway, no increase in hit size on OT due to popping wings.


How exactly are both tanks taking identical amounts of damage? Even if 1H spec isn't mirrored, a Druid and a Paladin can't possibly have the exact same base DR.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Sathoris » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:31 am

Xequecal wrote:How exactly are both tanks taking identical amounts of damage? Even if 1H spec isn't mirrored, a Druid and a Paladin can't possibly have the exact same base DR.


What part of the mirror damage - cannot be resisted / mitigate by any sort - people don't understand ?
Edit: Because if you could Mitigate / Resist the Mirrored Damage the you would have OT a Demo Lock :) or a DK and optimize him to reduce magic / shadow damage as much as possible.

The only way to mitigate the damage itself is to Pop CD as MT. So to optimise this, have the OT to taunt and pop CD's then when it's over have the MT taunt the boss back.

Have the MT gear up for mitigation as the less damage you take as MT the less damage is mirrored to the OT.

This can't be more simpler.
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Re: [25] Blood Queen Lanathel.

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:38 am

Going to go have a look at a 25 kill log then:

Cuties Only kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kp6u ... 371&e=7695

Combat starts:

[19:49:09.859] Blood-Queen Lana'thel gains Shroud of Sorrow from Blood-Queen Lana'thel

First Vampiric Bite:

[19:49:25.625] Blood-Queen Lana'thel Vampiric Bite Starfairy Absorb (5800)

First Frenzied Bloodthirst:

[19:50:15.593] Starfairy afflicted by Frenzied Bloodthirst from Starfairy

Second VB:

[19:50:17.531] Starfairy casts Vampiric Bite on Potlol

Second FB:

[19:51:07.578] Starfairy afflicted by Frenzied Bloodthirst from Starfairy
[19:51:07.718] Potlol afflicted by Frenzied Bloodthirst from Potlol

Third VB:

[19:51:08.953] Potlol casts Vampiric Bite on Dougal
[19:51:11.609] Starfairy casts Vampiric Bite on Rokabud

So yeah, different timer on 25 man. 50 second duration on the damage buff, rather than 60 second from 10 man. Timelining it in same way as before (edit, corrected air phase timer and mind control timer), assuming 5 seconds to bite someone after getting hit by frenzied bloodthirst:

00:15 - first bite - 1 bitten
01:05 - first frenzied bloodthirst
01:10 - second bite - 2 bitten
02:00 - second frenzied bloodthirst
02:05 - third bite - 4 bitten
02:20 - first air phase
02:55 - third frenzied bloodthirst
03:00 - fourth bite - 8 bitten
03:50 - fourth frenzied bloodthirst
03:55 - fifth bite - 16 bitten
04:40 - second air phase
04:45 - fifth frenzied bloodthirst
04:55 - at least 9 people MCed
05:30 - hard enrage

Edit: so with this in mind, sacrificing one of the first pair to get bitten will indeed buy you another 50 seconds. Ideally you don't want to have to run around biting people when she's in the air bombing the raid with bolts, so is it possible to manipulate the timer somewhat to try to avoid the two events coinciding, and possibly be able to extend the raid wide MC event until a bit later, without sacrificing a raid member early on?

Further edit: after looking through 25 man logs, looks like frenzied bloodthirst only lasts 10 seconds:

[19:33:10.968] Katulu afflicted by Frenzied Bloodthirst from Katulu
[19:33:20.953] Katulu's Frenzied Bloodthirst fades
[19:33:21.812] Katulu afflicted by Uncontrollable Frenzy from Blood-Queen Lana'thel

[19:33:14.578] Kamilol afflicted by Frenzied Bloodthirst from Kamilol
[19:33:24.578] Kamilol's Frenzied Bloodthirst fades
[19:33:25.156] Kamilol afflicted by Uncontrollable Frenzy from Blood-Queen Lana'thel

With this in mind, sacrificing one of the pair with the second bite definitely seems the way forward if you want to hit the hard enrage before wiping to mass MC soft enrage.

Yet another edit:

Ok, I thought her air phase was on a two minute timer, but according to the Cuties 25 log:

19:49:09.859 Combat starts
19:51:27.890 Blood-Queen Lana'thel casts Incite Terror
19:51:33.109 Blood-Queen Lana'thel casts Bloodbolt Whirl
19:53:08.203 Blood-Queen Lana'thel casts Incite Terror
19:53:13.453 Blood-Queen Lana'thel casts Bloodbolt Whirl

So that's a 2 min 20ish timer on the fear + air phase.

To sum up, timer difference between 10 and 25 man:

10 man:

Fear + air phase every 2 minutes
100% damage buff lasts 60 seconds, after which you have 15 seconds to bite someone before you get MCed

25 man:

Fear + air phase every 2 minutes 20 seconds
100% damage buff lasts 50 seconds, after which you have 10 seconds to bite someone before you get MCed
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