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[10] Deathbringer Saurfang

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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Kihra » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:41 pm

Baelik wrote:
Kihra wrote:If a tank takes a hit from a beast, then the tank did something wrong. A tank should take no hits from blood beasts. Just make sure your tanks cut out AOE attacks right before the blood beasts spawn, i.e., no consecrate on the ground and stop using HotR for a bit.


Thats good advice, but don't think you read my whole post :P
Don't go and say that the tank did something wrong coz my guild would probably say "Lets chalk another one up for..."


Plenty of strategies will work for 10 normal. All I'm saying is that it's possible (especially on 10) to keep the Blood Beasts from ever landing a hit on anyone.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby anowyn » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:17 pm

My group managed to do this fight without getting mark put on anyone until the very last second of the fight (only caused one strike of absorbed damage to the person who got it, who was shielded at the time).

Composition:

2 protection paladins

1 mutilate rogue
1 arms warrior

1 balance druid
1 arcane mage
1 shadow priest
1 elemental shaman

1 holy paladin
1 discipline priest

General Strategy:

  • Ranged handled the blood beasts and spread out with the healers.
  • Healers were on either end of the zone teleporter.
  • Melee was full time on the boss. They were told to be careful about AE abilities like WW.
  • The tanks mostly stuck to SotR, Judge, and HS. Very light HotR when we were sure the blood beasts would not get hit. No consecration at all.
  • The rogue tricked to help on threat.

Blood Beasts:

The ranged split into two groups to handle each blood beast. One group was mage and shaman who used a combination of earthbind totem, frost shock, and frost nova to manage the beast while the mage nuked it down. The other group was priest and druid who used a combination of roots, mind flay, and fade (to yoyo the mob) to nuke theirs down.

Notes:

The holy paladin put on righteous fury so he was a screaming threat beacon when the beasts spawn so they were sure to run away from the tank/melee pod.

The disc priest paid special attention to shield around boiling blood to avoid the damage it does for as long as possible when having to move around.

We probably could have avoided the mark entirely had I not screwed up the taunting around rune of blood and had him heal a ton. In fact, we found the most important aspect of the fight was managing the rune of blood. Vent delay alone was enough to cause hundreds of thousands additional healing. So now it is pretty silent we just watch each other's debuffs on grid.

We've done the fight with three ranged (ele shaman, arc mage, s priest). The priest yoyo'd a beast with flay and fade while the shaman and mage killed the other beast, then helped kill the priests' beast.

Frankly, we thought the idea of getting 3 marks crazy. When we got the achievement on the first kill we read it and were shocked the requirement was so lax. Not to say its bad per say to get the mark, we just opted from the get go for a high prevent strategy when dealing with blood power.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Florisia » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:28 am

We got this down about 4 weeks ago. We tried the fight about 3 times before I finally broke down and modified a suggestion I saw on wowhead.

Our big issue was that the boss wasn't taking enough damage and we kept running into situations where there'd be 2 marks up, and then we'd hit the enrage timer. I saw someone on wowhead talking about having someone tank the adds with a priest's PW:S on them to prevent stacks of blood power from getting high. Thought it was kinda insane. We didn't have a priest anyway, so it didn't matter, but what crossed my mind was the reason they were doing that. Damage prevented in whole apparently doesn't build stacks from the adds; okay. I drove up my block value(Via strength and some lower ilevel gear I had laying around still) to about 3.5k after buffs+Libram of the Sacred Shield and piled on some more avoidance from trinkets. I wasn't unhitable, but I still had a fair amount of avoid/block. The hits from the blood beasts got swallowed up by the block value most of the time and a large chunk of the boss's damage was getting eaten by it as well(In situations where I was actually tanking him plus his adds). We got one mark and killed him about a minute after he applied it.

Thus far, it's worked every attempt. Melee can easily switch targets and ranged don't have to run and kite them.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Threatco » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:36 pm

You sir are a genius.

Block value, how much does it seem like you need to fully block their hits? What's your armor at?
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby search66 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:26 am

Long time no see Threat!

Anyway... wanted to chime in here on a quick strat that has been working well with our 10-man. This requires one ret pally and one prot pally (of course!).

Basically, the ret pally and I (MT), switch HoJ on one of the beasts. Our melee (usually a DK and Pal), burn down that add; while the other beast is kited/killed by ranged.

Also helps to have a disc priest in the group for bubble-action. Anyway, thought I'd throw that strat out for anyone... It's been working great!
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby hoho » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:46 am

I'm not sure if it helps anyone but with our raid in average of ~250 ilvl gear we manage to kill him around 50 "energy". We have two tanks and one healer. Two ranged agro and slow the adds (arcane mage+hunter usually) with other ranged giving a hand (dots from spriest, some nukes from the rest). If you are getting your last marks usually around 10-15% with 3 healers you might want to try going with 2, that extra bit of DPS should be enough to kill him before third mark. Similarly if second mark usually goes out around 20-30% you can probably do it with one (exceptionally good) healer.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Kosar » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:58 am

Florisia wrote:Damage prevented in whole apparently doesn't build stacks from the adds; okay. I drove up my block value(Via strength and some lower ilevel gear I had laying around still) to about 3.5k after buffs+Libram of the Sacred Shield and piled on some more avoidance from trinkets. I wasn't unhitable, but I still had a fair amount of avoid/block. The hits from the blood beasts got swallowed up by the block value most of the time and a large chunk of the boss's damage was getting eaten by it as well(In situations where I was actually tanking him plus his adds). We got one mark and killed him about a minute after he applied it.

Thus far, it's worked every attempt. Melee can easily switch targets and ranged don't have to run and kite them.


This fight has been a brick wall for my guild, so maybe a new strategy is in order. (We've been using the same strategy as most guilds, but we're not getting enough dps on the Saurfang to beat his enrage timer.)

Using a block set is an intriguing approach and I'd like to give it a try. Since you've been successful with it, I assume you're not taking too many hits even after Chill of the Throne. And like Threatco, I'm curious how much block value you have for this fight. Any other tips would be appreciated.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Shathus » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:50 am

Kosar wrote:This fight has been a brick wall for my guild, so maybe a new strategy is in order. (We've been using the same strategy as most guilds, but we're not getting enough dps on the Saurfang to beat his enrage timer.)

Using a block set is an intriguing approach and I'd like to give it a try. Since you've been successful with it, I assume you're not taking too many hits even after Chill of the Throne. And like Threatco, I'm curious how much block value you have for this fight. Any other tips would be appreciated.


What does your raid make-up look like? I got my tree into an ICC10 pug this weekend, we had one hunter, a mage, lock, DK and rogue dps. And 3 healers were all trees. We rolled through everything until we got to Saurfang. Again biggest problem was the adds. The mage and lock were taking 1 add and able to lock it down pretty well w/o getting hit. The one problem was since 2 ranged were dealing with 1 add, the hunter by himself couldn't handle the other add without taking a few hits it seemed. After a few wipes, one of the druids switched to balance for the knock-back (3 healers was overkill anyways, but it was a pug). We got the first Mark around 40-45% which was on the other tree. He died somewhere around the enrage and I solo healed the last 30%+ without too much issue (granted he was at about 99 BP when he died).

I guess the morale of the story is, as long as the Marks don't get out of control, the fight isn't too bad on healing. You could get crazy and try to drop to 1 healer if you trust them IMO.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Kosar » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:21 pm

Shathus wrote:What does your raid make-up look like?


It's usually like this:

Tanks
Pally
DK

Healers
Priest
Tree

DPS
Warlock
Mage
Hunter
Hunter
Shammy (will help on heals if needed)
And then either a DK, Mage or Warrior

I think our biggest problem is getting the adds burned down quickly. All the kiting slows down our damage, so we don't beat the enrage. By having a tank handle the adds, I think we can switch from the adds to the boss quicker.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby bzzt » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:20 pm

With 4 ranged dps it really sounds like maybe they're putting too much into the kiting and not enough into the killing. Are they maybe too spread out? All 4 dps should be able to reach both of the adds (I'd suggest have them spread along the back with the healers either in melee or to the sides). 2 dps per add should be able to kill whatever it is without moving much at all provided they're hitting the trap (and 2 hunters in particular make it a joke b/c they can distracting shot the add going for those on the other side, eliminating even more movement).

In general, even with sorta gimpy alts, our number is 3 ranged -> ranged handle adds, less than that and we'll get one stunned for the melee to finish off.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Belloc » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:33 pm

If you're having add issues, just stun one of the adds for melee dps to kill and have your ranged finish the other one. Don't split your ranged up between the adds.

If you only have ranged, then split them up better. 3 ranged on one, and the other 2 ranged on the stunned add.

The adds have such little health that, if you assign dps properly, they should never be able to get a melee attack off and kiting should never be required.

Once again, stun a mob in melee, have your ranged finish off the other. If this doesn't work, you won't have the DPS to kill any bosses past Saurfang.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby beornus » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:04 pm

I am in a solid guild, but most of our 10 man team has GS in 2500-2700 range, so nothing incredible, and we did it by having the tanks grab the adds and just having DPS burn them to the ground. They lasted usually about 5 seconds, one usually only lasting 3 seconds. When the adds got away from us we wiped (3 x sub 5% attempts) but as soon as we got the Boss taunts tight and the adds staying with us it was not hard. The tanks would each grab 1 add, even the tank with Saurfang, and we did Boss taunts while adds were up as needed, but it worked well. Main issue was making sure the adds were accounted for (eventually had rogue ToT to me since we occassionally double tapped 1 and the other ate the rogue, even if it meant all 3 were on me for a short period) and that taunts were available when needed. Minimized movement and allowed heals and DPS to simplify their focus. Had to time tank abilities to make sure the right tools were not on CD and had to communicate but once we (more me, MT is better lol) "got it", it was very doable and we will continue to use this tactic, probably using some of Florisia's ideas to increase the block so as to even reduce the regained health more. None of them hit for much unless you have screwed up, so you can afford to reduce the tank HP for avoidance/mitigation if you do the other aspects right. Got the Made a Mess ach also, since DPS is able to pew pew more and the health regained from hitting the tanks was managable.

May not be the answer for everyone but should work for most guilds that are capable of doing ICC10 if it worked for us IMO.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby fausty » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:01 pm

My guild finally solved the dps issue and downed this boss by having our holy paladin solo heal. The first mark went out at about 15% which promptly killed the shaman, but after that we burned him down smoothly. The majority of dps was also ranged so they were able to kill the adds quickly without gimping their overall dps too much.

I'm still dying to try tanking the adds with a block value set though...
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby lochagos » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:56 am

fausty wrote:My guild finally solved the dps issue and downed this boss by having our holy paladin solo heal. The first mark went out at about 15% which promptly killed the shaman, but after that we burned him down smoothly.



We tried solo healing the fight last night also, and it worked great as well. In our case it was our resto druid's idea, because he was complaining he did not have to heal enough. We didn't get a single mark until well into the enrage portion. Our holy paladin is used to covering the first mark so we didn't lose that guy either.

If you can single heal this fight, the extra DPS can be a godsend for struggling guilds.
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Re: [10] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Draslin » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:18 am

We were having trouble with our 10 man this week downing him, so we tried a new strat.

Before I get into it, I'll go through the anatomy of our group:

Tanks:
2x Pally (yeah, the way it should be)

Heals:
Disc Priest / Resto Druid

DPS (all over 4.5k, all but one over 5.2k tanks together added another 4.5k dps)
Ret Pally
Arcane Mage
Survival Hunter
MM Hunter
Mut Rogue
Enhance Shaman

We decided to use all of our DPS to burn the adds, as we were having trouble with pulling the adds out of the stack. They were always getting divine stormed or whatever and staying in the group, feeding him power.

We had ALL of our DPS switch to one add and burn it, while the tanks each HoJ'd one of the adds. The first add died without getting any runic power to the boss. The second add took a kidney shot and died real fast too, gaining maybe 8-9 runic power for the boss. Tanks just kept holy shield up just in case.

I maintanked with Seal of Command to help splash damage onto the adds. Both tanks did full aoe tanking 969's, rather than leaving out hammer or consecrate when the adds were up.

We very effectively got him down in two tries (on one try one of the DPS was trying to pull one away). This strat would work -really- well with a warlock with shadowfury as well.

It's a way simpler strat, as long as you have good tanks who work well together, and enough stun power to make sure you lock down the beasts. We got the achievement with only one mark out (@ 10%) and no deaths.

Try this strat out if you're having trouble with kiting or not having enough ranged. Just bring enough DPS that are good at changing targets on the fly and in specific order, and you're golden. Takes way less coordination and yields great results.

Hope this helps!

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