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[10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Njall » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:48 am

Flex wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:Half a tier or not, it's still higher content.


So that means the first boss should do twice as much melee damage as the heroic bosses of the previous raid?

Last combat log I made for ToGC had Icehowl's average melee of 10969, average melee for Gormok was 11384 with Impale at 17,006.

I fail to see why the first boss of the next raid zone should hit for 8,000 more than the previous raid zone's hard modes.


Gear check and filter. Kinda like good ol'Patchwerk (and his crotch). This is the final leg of a long journey. With the sheer availability of badge gear, there's no reason not to be adequately equipped now. So some of the design decisions taken become a bit clearer now - to me at least. :)
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:49 am

I could argue that Algalon hits for more and he's two tiers BEHIND Icecrown, but I figure I'm just going to get pounced on for arguing about a hard mode only boss that most people haven't done.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:55 am

They could make his melee damage 15K, thus 30K saber lashes to be split, and it is still a significant increase in damage taken by the tanks with his attack speed compared to heroic mode versions of the previous tier.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:05 am

I don't understand what people want here. Do you want the boss to do only 2k more damage per swing based on the last tier's hard mode version? So we can be coddled into Icecrown?

I'm not trying to be rude here, but I don't understand how an increase of an 8k hit is considered unreasonable. (If that's even what it is, we weren't taking into account bleed stacks on Gormok.)

EDIT: I might also mention here that ToC was completely slagged off for being far too easy on normal version, which may have accounted for the ramped up difficulty that you guys are finding. I'm still adamant that the ten man version is undertuned however.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:13 am

An increase of 100% melee damage between Heroic previous and normal current is way too much. An increase of 50% to 66% is fine.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:19 am

I need proper numbers. This is too much guesstimation and I don't know where to get the appropriate Gormok heroic numbers.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:42 am

Nikachelle wrote:I need proper numbers. This is too much guesstimation and I don't know where to get the appropriate Gormok heroic numbers.


Here's the last ToGC I did for Gormok.

Looking through assorted logs at Marrowgar I see Saber Lash is not on a predictable timer with it coming as close as .7 seconds and up to almost 2 seconds between usages. For the record I don't mind the Saber Lash damage, frequency maybe, it is the tuned for 25 man melee numbers that I have issue with.

Also, from looking around, this hot fix went in sometime around Thursday of last week.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Shoju » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:46 am

Nikachelle wrote:I find that disappointing. We went in and one shotted it and giggled the entire time. Wasted heroism on a bone whirl (I should never call for heroism...) and nobody died throughout the fight.. I thought it was a fun, entry-level fight, but also undertuned.


And I went in there with 10 geared players on thursday, and wiped all night to him. We had sound strats, but it wasn't our "best" group. It was a good group, but not the type of group that I would throw at a hard mode. We wiped over and over and over. We had trash respawn it was so bad.

On saturday, there were some of our more 'seasoned/experienced/top notch' players in there and they one shot him. That was incredibly frustrating for me in particular since I was raid leading thursday, and I had actually spent time on the PTR, seen the fight, and killed him on the PTR.

I'm a little depressed that it sounds like they gutted the fight, but it needed to be tuned down a little, or it would have been the bane of a lot of non hard mode guilds.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:49 am

Shoju wrote:And I went in there with 10 geared players on thursday, and wiped all night to him. We had sound strats, but it wasn't our "best" group. It was a good group, but not the type of group that I would throw at a hard mode. We wiped over and over and over. We had trash respawn it was so bad.

On saturday, there were some of our more 'seasoned/experienced/top notch' players in there and they one shot him. That was incredibly frustrating for me in particular since I was raid leading thursday, and I had actually spent time on the PTR, seen the fight, and killed him on the PTR.

I'm a little depressed that it sounds like they gutted the fight, but it needed to be tuned down a little, or it would have been the bane of a lot of non hard mode guilds.


To be fair sounds like the change happened between the two raid days.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:59 am

I found this:

It is entirely possible to single tank Marrowgar, in 10man, should the tank be sufficiently geared. In 3.3(a) Marrowgar's damage was further reduced, making this an even more viable strategy. Be advised that although this frees up another DPS in your 10man raid, the tank will take heavy damage.

Our 3.3a patch, on the EU side, went in last night at about 6 am server time.

(Makes me feel a bit better since I was worried I was suddenly arguing that I'd done the "original" mode when in reality I'd only done the nerfed version. Thankfully, that's not the case.)
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:02 am

Nikachelle wrote:I found this:

It is entirely possible to single tank Marrowgar, in 10man, should the tank be sufficiently geared. In 3.3(a) Marrowgar's damage was further reduced, making this an even more viable strategy. Be advised that although this frees up another DPS in your 10man raid, the tank will take heavy damage.

Our 3.3a patch, on the EU side, went in last night at about 6 am server time.


3.3a was a client side patch for mostly Mac issues. Hot Fixes do not require a client side patch, otherwise they would not be hot fixes. At most they require a server restart.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:13 am

According to a blue, it was done on December 14th: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 3880&sid=1

So like I said... last night. My realm was also restarted and patched last night, so it fits with what he says.

Where did you read it was done on Thursday?
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:18 am

Nikachelle wrote:According to a blue, it was done on December 14th: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 3880&sid=1

So like I said... last night. My realm was also restarted and patched last night, so it fits with what he says.

Where did you read it was done on Thursday?


The hot fix could have gone in between 12/10 and 12/14, the time between the two updates.

I gathered the Thursdayish info from the topic in the tanking forum topic about this change, people who were doing it earlier in the week reported obscene melee damage while people later in the week did not see that. Even had a Mad Skill 25 druid saying taking the same damage in 10s as he was in 25s was wrong.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:23 am

I give up. Your "evidence" as to when any kind of hotfix or patch went in is completely based off other people's perceptions and has no dates, values or numbers. Yes, we've already acknowledged that people were getting hit the same in 10 man as 25 man. That isn't the core of the issue here. The point is WHEN the hotfix went in and the best you can provide is "because somebody said early in the week it was hard but somebody else later in the week said it was easy". That doesn't take into account anything to do with the quality of players in both skill and gearing in various different guilds and raid types. (ie. I think Algalon 10 is a HARD fight, but for somebody in like Aubade, it's a walk in the park. Does that mean that a hotfix went in when he did it? Jeebus.)
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:30 am

Yes my evidence is anecdotal. When I have one source posting the difference between 10 and 25 was noise of the fight and then people on the forums posting their observations from late last week that they were not seeing those large melee numbers while others said they did see them I'm going with it was hot fixed sometime between the 11th and 14th between the two forum updates.
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