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[10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:46 am

How do you deal with the transition from Bone Storm? We ended up with so many people out of position, and then the tanks would go splat because the healer wasn't close enough to get them healed up from the Saber Lash. It seems that he is taunt immune and heal aggro is VERY VERY sensitive on this fight.

I went from Retting it up to healing because having a Holy Paladin taking care of the tanks just feels like cheating.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:56 am

What we did, which worked well, was to mark the tanks with raid markers. The tanks just sort of humped each other for Bone Storm while everyone went their own ways. The raid marks allow the tanks to position themselves better for the lashes and for healers to orient themselves.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Amirya » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:12 am

We also ran into issues on Marrowgar, on our first pull, my AD procced. That was lovely (gogo tankadins with PoJ and warriors without). Both tanks stood on top of each other, marked, and without fail, on a saber lash, one would die and the other would not. Penance, PoM, Holy Light spam...

We were definitely dropping if a healer got spiked (disc priest, holy priest, holy paladin). We finally had our shaman go resto, and we lived a bit longer, but yeah...we called it and decided to work on trying to get rid of some older gear.

One thing I think we might try is having our boomkin throw on his tanking gear, and feral kitty dps on top of the tanks (or bear dps, whichever). Does this clown have an enrage timer? We didn't notice one.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:23 am

Couldn't tell you, or best attempts were only 3:30 range, and we were only getting him to 70%. We weren't doing any damage during Bone Storm, but it looks like the aggro drop is at the end of the storm, so we might try ranged doing what they can during the storm.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby andx » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:02 am

Well here's some food for thought. If your melee is standing INSIDE the hit box the flames will go straight to the tanks. Found this out in our IC group that had only one ranged. Once you move outside the hit box the encounter gets a good bid easier. ALso this is the hardest encounter in the first 4 IC bosses.

Cheers,
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:28 pm

andx wrote:Well here's some food for thought. If your melee is standing INSIDE the hit box the flames will go straight to the tanks. Found this out in our IC group that had only one ranged. Once you move outside the hit box the encounter gets a good bid easier. ALso this is the hardest encounter in the first 4 IC bosses.

Cheers,
Andx


we had our tank healer(s) standing inside his hit box. They can ignore Coldflame that way
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Threatco » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:58 pm

So my group cleared ICC 10 last night. Mostly pug because of my new working hours.

We 2 shot every boss except this one, who took us over 2 hours, with 1 trash respawn.

So hopefuly my perspective will help the people who are having trouble.

We were wiping until I reformed the group.

Started with;

2x warrior tank. MT average ilvl 232. OT average ilvl 226.

Geared Paladin/druid/holy priest heals.

With this set up we died 5-6 times to deaths when either me (priest) or druid got spiked. Either we would let the tank die or let our co-healer die. A bit of a skill issue, once we got it worked out and know to toss 1-2 heals on each other then spam out co-healers tank, we were good. (obviously paladin is just spamming both tanks the whole fight). Healing was still very hard though, the undergeared tank would die very fast from consecutive sabre lashes if the person assigned to him stoped spamming him to do anything else. It was key for the tanks to time their CD's for when a healer get's gravestoned.

We also died 5-6 times to a death after the aggro reset. The tanks just could not reliably snap aggro off healers. Our strat was for healers to follow their assigned tanks (at a distance) so at end of whirlwind they are in range to heal, and to avoid healing right at the end of the phase until add is picked up. It was a consistancy issue, 2/3 of the time no problem, the other 1/3 of the time he gibbed someone before tanks got aggro.

For cold flames and spikes we treated it like vezax or iron council hardmode. We have 3 ranged dps spread out behind boss. As long as 3/10 of your raid are not in melee range, cold fire will continue to prefer ranged targets. So healers and all except 3 dps stack in bosses hit box so they dont have to dodge fire and for fast gravestone kills. Once we had this strat, grave stones and P1 fire was never an issue (unless it was on the priest or druid healer, we still wiped because of that)

During whirlwind, I advised people to not scatter like chickens, to stay in range of heals. This phase can sometimes go easy with almost no one taking damage or sometimes he screws people with a X of fire and him whirlwinding on top of you. Not much to advise other then after people practiced the phase a few times, they got better at avoiding damage while staying in range of heals.

With this group we got him to 20% a couple times. I feel we could have got him, but it would have taken more dedication then a pug has, and some luck.

I wasn't carrying anyone by the end of it. But there were still some weak links. My over all healing as holy priest was about 2/3 the other 2 healers, I think disc or shadow would have been better if I had the option.

Of course the undergeared tank was a big issue.

Also it's hard to judge DPS on this fight, with it dropping during whirlwind and spike switches, but our DPS could have been better over all.

So I replace 5/10 people and then 2 shot it.

Replaced the undergeared tank with an almost full ilvl 245 tank. He became the MT and it litteraly felt like they nerfed the fight, he almost didnt need any healing, where the last guy needed constant spamming and holy light bombs. And his cotank, the old MT didnt take much from sabre lash either.

Also the druid left and was replaced by a more geared resto shaman. The druid wasnt bad but the shaman was OP. Between him and the paladin on the 2 tanks I was hardly needed, just there as a buffer incase one got spiked or the raid sat in fire. Our DPS also went up quite a bit.

Our one wipe with this group was because after the whirlwind healers were out of range, and our new MT wanted to run kite him to the back wall, which we wernt used to. On the second try it actualy felt like a toc 10 normal fight. /yawn for me with paladin/shaman healing on good tanks. And with organized positioning, fast gravestone kills, and very strict rules for the aggro reset, it felt very easy. Made me feel like a baddie for wiping on him for 2 hours.

Possibly the new tank was just more skilled, or we just got lucky with aggro resets, but we didn't change any strat for that, our new tank just picked him up smoothly every time.



TLDR. Shamans/holy paladins rock. Have at least 1 toc 25 geared tank. And 3/10 of the raid at range, the rest stacked in hit box behind him.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Neara » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:49 am

Solo tanked it yesterday with 3 healer (pally, priest, shamy). If a healer got spiked i dropped a bit, but without being in danger of dying. With every DPS going all out (even melees during Storm wasn't an issue) he died quite fast. At first Storm 2 DPS died (BR + ankh) after that i had the timing down when i had to slam my shield in one of his 4 faces again.

ilvl range of our group is 245-258 with very few 232-pieces.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Argali » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:02 am

I think it might be a case that blizzard has tuned the 10 version with a raid that has ilvl 232 minimum. ICC new content should be a treat to raiders who are pretty much bored of ToC, and not be (easily) accessible for people who still could use a lot of upgrades, i.e. Frozen Halls heroic ilvl 232 gear, and all the ilvl 245 EoT gear.

Though that is not to say that if you're very skilled, that you can't do it, but from a average person skill level, you probably aren't supposed to do ICC unless you were raiding ToC regularly, until you have all the drops from new heroics and EoT.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Belloc » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:49 pm

andx wrote:Well here's some food for thought. If your melee is standing INSIDE the hit box the flames will go straight to the tanks. Found this out in our IC group that had only one ranged. Once you move outside the hit box the encounter gets a good bid easier. ALso this is the hardest encounter in the first 4 IC bosses.

Cheers,
Andx

I'd say that Deathwhisper and Saurfang are much more difficult than Marrowgar.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Flex » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:46 am

Belloc wrote:I'd say that Deathwhisper and Saurfang are much more difficult than Marrowgar.


I see two kinds of difficulties.

Difficult Strategy vs Difficult Damage.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Tchernobog » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:12 pm

Mayhap I'm a silly man, but this sounds quite a bit like the first mistakes made on Patches 25 -> Keep throwing tanks at it. If the saber lash is ~20k every second on one target and 10k on two targets and you only have 2-3 healers, why dilute them onto two tanks? Sounds like a pretty normal badge tank (>40k) tanking the boss alone with three healers healing and one extra dps might make the fight easier.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Javan » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:18 pm

Directly related to the initial poster, for the first time last night, my guild went in to Icecrown Citadel. It was rather spur of the moment, although we had most of our best geared folks included. Tank death was our main problem for the fight. While I could chalk this up to bad healing... in any other fight we've done, tank death has always been the least of our concerns. While we haven't done TotGC or progressed past Mimiron in Ulduar (primarily due to failure with execution), in most fights, the tank dying due to spike damage has never been a major issue.

I'm wondering - should I return to stacking stamina in gems and enchants? Since my guild only does 10-man content, I'd moved to a mix of Stam / Agil stacking and I'm wondering if I need to switch that up.

Here's my armory - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... el&n=Javan - the only change on my gear from last night was I equipped the two brewfest steins for the extra 340 stamina when I noticed tank death was the bigger issue. With buffs, I was sitting at roughly 48k HP and about 24% dodge after the zone debuff. I could likely swap in my Origin of Nightmares for a slightly higher health pool and mitigation. (I realize I'm ridiculously over the hit cap, but drops have been rather unlucky for upgrades.)

Any advice is appreciated. The only other time healing me has been an issue is when purges don't happen fast enough on Steelbreaker... so I'm at a loss and looking for advice. Is my gear fine and healing just needs to tighten up? Should I swap my gems / enchants to more heavily favor stamina?
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Threatco » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:55 pm

I would throw on the 245 armor trinket from badge vendor. The spikes are pure physical damage and it give you an Oh NO cool down for when one of your healers get spiked.

For those who say it's easy, try doing it with a tank who doesen't have ilvl 245 gear. It's insane spike damage.
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Re: [10] Lord Marrowgar damage spikes?

Postby Vrimmel » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:43 pm

I pugged this boss with a warrior tank with similar gear to me, maybe a tiny bit lower, but nothing of significance. For some reason the warrior tank kept dying (combat ressed once). In the end I just solo tanked him from around 35%. It seemed easier for the healers.
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