[25] Deathbringer Saurfang

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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby baleogthefierce » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:08 pm

Rojhaz wrote:
Magnusharkov wrote:Hypothetical question:

Could you just stack block value, get shielded then just tank the beasts without causing blood points? Do they hit weakly enough for that level of BV to be attainable?

I think they hit extremely hard, but I can't say for certain.


Code: Select all
[20:49:39.993] Blood Beast hits Baleog 3321
[20:49:40.632] Blood Beast hits Baleog 371 (A: 830, B: 2437)
[20:49:40.948] Blood Beast hits Baleog 1781 (A: 830)
[20:49:41.100] Blood Beast hits Baleog 3370
[20:49:42.317] Blood Beast hits Baleog 3071 (A: 139)
[20:49:43.128] Blood Beast hits Baleog 808 (B: 2437)
[20:49:43.455] Blood Beast hits Baleog 3001
[20:49:44.613] Blood Beast hits Baleog 2927

From 25N Saurfang http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xus8imcj0twfhddl/?s=4953&e=5231 (WoL report)

I can't find an instance of a Blood Beast hit that was fully blocked or fully absorbed, so I can't say whether or not Saurfang would still gain BP from those types of hits.

On another note, we just had two pally tanks rotating on Saurfang. When Blood Beasts spawned, tanks would grab aggro on as many as possible, lock would toss up a Shadowfury, and all DPS would nuke them as fast as possible. We got the "I've Gone and Made a Mess" achievement by accident :)
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Shathus » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:13 pm

Rojhaz wrote:
Magnusharkov wrote:Hypothetical question:

Could you just stack block value, get shielded then just tank the beasts without causing blood points? Do they hit weakly enough for that level of BV to be attainable?

I think they hit extremely hard, but I can't say for certain.


I know this is the 25 man thread, but I only have data from 10 man. I saw the beasts hitting me for about 2500-2600 overall, about 350 post-block, so something that would be pretty easy to cover with only a piece or two (or perhaps even 226 block libram alone). But perhaps on 25 the extra BV needed to cover the gap would sacrifice too much survivability, since we actually need to tank the main boss too, unlike adds on Anub.

The other question does a full block still count as a hit, or does it rely on damage being dealt, ie: could priest bubbles and Sacred Shield fill the gap?
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Steve » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:15 pm

This is strange. In most of our 25 man attempts single tanking his healing clocked in at roughly 4K HPS (going by the combat logs/world of logs). So the question for me was does the second tank contribute 4K more raidwide dps in his damage spec than in his tank spec.

I suspect for most people and most raid comps the answer will be no. But the answer isn't always going to be no.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Meloree » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:22 pm

Argali wrote:t's looking like single tank strategy is false economy, even with a MS effect available.

So, it's, at the very minimum, a dps that does tank dps+9722 to break even.

If there's any dps with 13.7k, feel free to drop an app at my guild, we'll accept you as soon as we process it.


You're still overetimating overall healing by double. We solotanked the first kill, I had 49.3% avoidance for the kill (winning at RNG, I was in full EH, ~45% boss avoidance). Saurfang's HPS: 4832. My DPS on the kill: 4718. From a run we 2-tanked his healing was 1100hps, Wound Poison uptime: 99%. Admittedly, the tanks could improve on their taunt-swaps a bit there. DPS required to make solotanking a net RDPS win: 8450. Easily achievable.

I'm not arguing to solotank this fight. I think it's a Bad Strategy. Using 2 tanks makes the fight significantly more stable, especially at the end. I'm only arguing that the napkin math thus far is a bit sloppy, and may be drawing unwarranted conclusions. You probably CAN turn solotanking into an RDPS win, if you're constraining the number of healers. Otherwise, 2-tanking probably makes the end of the fight stable enough to turn a healer into a DPS, and that's almost always going to be an RDPS win.

In other words, a pure boss healing analysis, at best, isn't conclusive. That's fine, though, because I think, regardless, the jury is in on solotanking, and it's not the optimal strategy.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby baleogthefierce » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:26 pm

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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Meloree » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:56 pm

baleogthefierce wrote:http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=21971507971&sid=1

Shhhh they're watching this thread :P


Well, that explains the anomaly I saw in my logs with higher average heals per hit yesterday than on the 8th, even with higher MS uptime.

I'll let the post stand, because it's correct in context, though. It's just kind of a shame that Blizzard is so heavy-handed. "THIS IS THE WAY YOU MUST DO THIS FIGHT". I almost want to solotank it again next week, just to be a stubborn bastard, even though I well know that 2-tanking has always been optimal.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Argali » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:16 pm

Ya ofc, my crappy estimates make no account for a)parry haste, and b) correct uptime on Rune of Blood.

And still, no hard, solid proof, if a MS debuff works, as of yet. And I'm, too lazy to go search logs, and analyse information on hps done with MS and without MS.

And I had 3 tries on saurfang this week so far. Uptime on rune of blood was(approximately), 68%,70% and 78%.

ANNNNDDD ofc, now that the healing is 10x instead of 5x, single tanking seems dead.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Meloree » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:03 pm

Argali wrote:Ya ofc, my crappy estimates make no account for a)parry haste, and b) correct uptime on Rune of Blood.

And still, no hard, solid proof, if a MS debuff works, as of yet. And I'm, too lazy to go search logs, and analyse information on hps done with MS and without MS.

ANNNNDDD ofc, now that the healing is 10x instead of 5x, single tanking seems dead.


MS works. The parses linked above are sufficient to prove it.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Argali » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:20 pm

Allrighty!

(one word replies are cool <3)
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Koatanga » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:12 am

Argali wrote:Allrighty!

(one word replies are cool <3)

Agreed.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Anorian » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:32 am

in our 10 man last night we wiped the first time not knowing they had adjusted the healing:/ 7 dps of which 5 were doing almost 7k wasnt enough to outdps his healing at 20%.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Argali » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:52 am

Koatanga wrote:
Argali wrote:Allrighty!

(one word replies are cool <3)

Agreed.


Seconded!
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Shathus » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:36 am

Argali wrote:
Koatanga wrote:
Argali wrote:Allrighty!

(one word replies are cool <3)

Agreed.


Seconded!


I disagree
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Avengeance » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:09 am

We tell the ranged and healers to pair up and stand together, then spread 12 yards from other pairs (we find that if you do solo-spread you dont really have enough room, and end up blood nova hitting more ppl than necessary). High aggro healers are in the center line and max range from the boss. When adds spawn, range immediately single target them, after 3 secs melee helps out. And we dont do any fancy things like letting the marked person die, we heal every mark, and tank swap on every rune of blood.

p.s. you can hand of protection people with the DoT (it removes it), and saves some blood power gain. Mages should definitely iceblock it out. We even got the 3 mark ach 25 man in our alt run with sub-par DPSers so it isnt all about outgearing, its more about exection.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby baleogthefierce » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:35 am

Avengeance wrote:p.s. you can hand of protection people with the DoT (it removes it), and saves some blood power gain. Mages should definitely iceblock it out. We even got the 3 mark ach 25 man in our alt run with sub-par DPSers so it isnt all about outgearing, its more about exection.


Do you mean Mark of the Fallen Champion or Boiling Blood?
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