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[25] Deathbringer Saurfang

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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Meloree » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:02 pm

Worldie wrote:Me and my co-tank went using avoidance gear, with me sporting around 40% avoidance post-chill. As a result, we got the I've gone and made a mess achievement without even trying.


40% avoidance post-chill in avoidance gear? That has to be a typo.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby PsiVen » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:07 pm

Assuming you include miss and not block, 40% sounds about right. Probably more if you regem your best gear for it, count buffs etc.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Treck » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:10 pm

40% postchill with avoidance gear is a bit low.
My normal gear includes 60% avoidance prechill. and thats unbuffed aswell.
Without gemming just gearing for some avoidance gear i doubt id have a hard time hitting 50% postchill in a raid.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Belloc » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:28 pm

Treck wrote:We found an easy way of dealing with thisone.
Wiped a few times on our altrun and couldnt understand why, started assigning healers to the 1st to 5th mark, then we were out of healers. Best we did was about 5% then the 7th mark or so came, and someone would die.
Roughtly, we had marks at 55%, 45%, 35%, 30%, 20%, 15% and 5% ish.
And since every tick of the debuff gives him a bloodpoint (or whatever) it will go faster and faster, and at 30% he "softenrages" hitting faster, was a small problem for our undergeared tanks at about 43k fully buffed HP (instead of 58.5k).
So after an hour and a half of trying to figure out a strat (we oneshotted without any asignements in the mainrun) we decided, "hey, why not just let ppl die?".
And sure enough, dps died off one by one (lucky no healers were hit) and he got 4 marks off before he died, at roughtly 55%, 35%, 20%, 10% and about 80 points from a 5th one.

I won't say anything bad about your strategy (it worked, after all, and I would have never thought of it)... but why not, instead, try to reduce the amount of blood power gained?
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Threatco » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:35 pm

Downed this last night in my [10] man. Trying to prepare for it in 25 man.

1)Debuffs the current tank every so often. This debuff makes every hit the boss does on that tank to heal the boss.
WTDAI) 2 tanks, taunt when your co tank has the debuff.

2) Summons adds. Damage done by adds heals boss. Adds hit like a truck but have low HP.
WTDAI) Have a strict melee/tank AOE ban when add spawn so healers/ranged can aggro and kite them until they die. Can be slowed/snared/stunned.

3) Debuffs a random non tank raid member so that they take stready damage the rest of the fight. You will see 3-6 marks on different people before he dies. Any more is going to cause a wipe. He casts one when his energy gets to 100. His energy goes up when ever he or his pets do any damage.
WTDAI) Prevent him from gaining extra energy by stacking avoidance, and 100% avoiding pet damage with kiting. Save BL for his enrage so you burn through the worst part.

WTDAI = what to do about it

Am I on track with this, or anything I misunderstood?

I heard someone mention an AOE that encouraged the raid to spread out. I don't remeber seeing that in 10 man. Can anyone elaborate?
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Treck » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:12 pm

Belloc wrote:I won't say anything bad about your strategy (it worked, after all, and I would have never thought of it)... but why not, instead, try to reduce the amount of blood power gained?

Actually, this is exatly what we did.
By letting ppl die from the mark, we reduced the amount of blood points the boss gained, by lots.
Before we had 6-7marks before the boss were close to dying. Then on the kill we had 4 marks, 4 dead ppl. And a dead boss. Id say we managed to reduce blood points gained by lots, about 100 or more even.
Since he gets points every time the mark he casts on ppl tick, nomatter what you do with trying to keep ppl alive, hes gonna get bloodpoints faster and faster and faster.
Immagine right as hes about to cast his 5th mark, thats 4ppl, taking a tick each,(think its every 3sec?) not only is that a lot of healing for your healers, but also a crapload of points for him to cast more marks with. At that point, he would have gotten just about a whole extra mark off from just letting the first person live, not to mention making it all go faster.
Sure, playing it pro with the bloodnovas, not getting hit by adds (we managed many times to not have a single add hitting anyone, at all).
But if your keeping the ppl with the marks alive, he is gonna get bloodpoints faster and faster the longer into the fight is.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Threatco » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:16 pm

Letting marked players die seems like it could be viable. That's only 20% healing. You could mabey go with 3-4 healers instead of 6 to compensate for the DPS loss.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Treck » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:30 pm

Threatco wrote:1)Debuffs the current tank every so often. This debuff makes every hit the boss does on that tank to heal the boss.
WTDAI) 2 tanks, taunt when your co tank has the debuff.

Yes, use 2 tanks. One is most likely very doable if your dps is through the roof and you just wanna show you can.

Threatco wrote:2) Summons adds. Damage done by adds heals boss. Adds hit like a truck but have low HP.
WTDAI) Have a strict melee/tank AOE ban when add spawn so healers/ranged can aggro and kite them until they die. Can be slowed/snared/stunned.

Hunter frost traps and a moonkind/eleshaman with knockback works good.
We used a holypally with RF on in the back (with the moonkin/eleshaman protecting them) so that un-dpsd adds would go that way. Once ppl started dpsing them they ran away, but the dps could move from the adds as they got closer (holypallys rather not)
AoE bann would be to much to say, id say more in the lines of restrictions by common sense, if they are up, dont try to do more AoE and risking it potentially hitting you.

Threatco wrote:3) Debuffs a random non tank raid member so that they take stready damage the rest of the fight. You will see 3-6 marks on different people before he dies. Any more is going to cause a wipe. He casts one when his energy gets to 100. His energy goes up when ever he or his pets do any damage.
WTDAI) Prevent him from gaining extra energy by stacking avoidance, and 100% avoiding pet damage with kiting. Save BL for his enrage so you burn through the worst part.

The avoidance part wont do that much, every bit helps, and might be cruitial for HMs, but i wouldnt re-enchant/gem my gear just yet. BL for the enrage is a good idea.
We assigned our healers 1-5. Healer 1 takes mark nr 1, healer 2 gets mark nr2, etc etc. Worked untill you got more marks than healers, then its most likely a dps problem, to cure that id suggest just letting ppl die off asap when they get the mark, the boss will get points much much slower.

Threatco wrote:I heard someone mention an AOE that encouraged the raid to spread out. I don't remeber seeing that in 10 man. Can anyone elaborate?

He casts something called Blood Nova, basicly hits one person, and everyone within 12yards of that person, he will also get points for everyone damaged with this effect, the damage from this effect isnt significant, but it will speed up the points gained on the boss.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Belloc » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:29 pm

Treck wrote:
Belloc wrote:I won't say anything bad about your strategy (it worked, after all, and I would have never thought of it)... but why not, instead, try to reduce the amount of blood power gained?

Actually, this is exatly what we did.
By letting ppl die from the mark, we reduced the amount of blood points the boss gained, by lots.
Before we had 6-7marks before the boss were close to dying. Then on the kill we had 4 marks, 4 dead ppl. And a dead boss. Id say we managed to reduce blood points gained by lots, about 100 or more even.
Since he gets points every time the mark he casts on ppl tick, nomatter what you do with trying to keep ppl alive, hes gonna get bloodpoints faster and faster and faster.
Immagine right as hes about to cast his 5th mark, thats 4ppl, taking a tick each,(think its every 3sec?) not only is that a lot of healing for your healers, but also a crapload of points for him to cast more marks with. At that point, he would have gotten just about a whole extra mark off from just letting the first person live, not to mention making it all go faster.
Sure, playing it pro with the bloodnovas, not getting hit by adds (we managed many times to not have a single add hitting anyone, at all).
But if your keeping the ppl with the marks alive, he is gonna get bloodpoints faster and faster the longer into the fight is.


The more I think about this, the more amazingly genius it sounds. Wow.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Neara » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:12 am

I like it, just suggested it to my raid. With 5+ Marks up in the Enrage phase one death (especially if its a healer) can cause a chain reaction of all marks dying and saurfang healing up to 50% HP. With just one Mark active all you have to do is another 5%, big deal.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Worldie » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:23 am

PsiVen wrote:Assuming you include miss and not block, 40% sounds about right. Probably more if you regem your best gear for it, count buffs etc.

^

All my gear is fully gemmed for stamina, i'm not going to regem stuff for avoidance until we get hard modes.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Meloree » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:36 am

Worldie wrote:
PsiVen wrote:Assuming you include miss and not block, 40% sounds about right. Probably more if you regem your best gear for it, count buffs etc.

^

All my gear is fully gemmed for stamina, i'm not going to regem stuff for avoidance until we get hard modes.


Fair enough, I feel the same way, but my fully EH-stacked progression gear nets north of 40% unbuffed avoidance (post chill). I wouldn't call that avoidance gear, though. I know I'm in the next best thing to perfect gear - missing 272 cloak and 258 trinket for what I'd consider "perfect" EH gear, but Worldie isn't far behind me on progression. Swapping in avoidance trinkets and libram, for the really simple and unoptimized version of an avoidance set, easily nets another 5% avoidance. So I maintain that 40% for "Avoidance" gear sounds really really low. Even in full ilvl245, it sounds a bit low to me.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Arnock » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:46 pm

I can confirm that letting people die works on 10 man as well, we were wiping ~20% due to having 4-5 marks up, but then we let our first dps with the mark died, and we got him down to 2% before he enraged, would have had it if our healer didn't die.


However, only let someone die on 10m if it's a dps, and if it's the first mark. And it's definately doable without. Our kill had a healer get the first mark, so we healed through it, and the last 10% or so we ignored beasts and burned the boss.

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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby Nadir » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:06 pm

Once your guild learns how to deal with Blood Nova and Blood Beasts, the biggest bang for your buck in terms of reducing his rate of Blood Power gain is through avoidance.

Extreme avoidance setups will probably be given more serious consideration for the hard mode version if it's as tightly tuned as it was on the PTR.
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Re: [25] Deathbringer Saurfang

Postby inthedrops » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:13 pm

Well, I didn't make it to the 25 but did 10 today in my avoidance set. I have to agree (partially) with the person that said 40% + chill is low. I disagree that it's low, but I do agree that it's very easy to obtain WITHOUT regemming for it.

I have zero tank gear from ToGC 25. In my stam set I have ~54% avoidance unbuffed. In my avoidance set I have just over 60%. Nothing is gemmed for avoidance, it's just the highest avoidance pieces I have available to me.

As for the fight in 10 man, we were very ranged heavy. Only had one melee DPS. We beat the encounter with only one mark up. He never even cast a second one. We are fairly geared as a group (I am the least geared) so I suspect the gear I wore didn't contribute all that much. I'm not sure what the other tank wore but we are quick on taunts and didn't have any add issues that might further contribute to his BP.

I plan on wearing the same gear set in 25.
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