Failure at tanking, why?

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Failure at tanking, why?

Postby kaldarom » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:27 am

alrighty, well i just speced prot for my fist time back when i was lvl 60, and i am now 68 and kindof have a decent sorta understanding of how im supposed to work. but, there's a problem.

recently i tried to tank about 8-10 of those demons in front of deaths door, and found that i died pretty much instantly (used a potion, bubble bandage\holy wraith, the works, and i barley killed one (the one i was spamming excercisom or however you spell it, lol, im tired ><) and the rest just tore me up. now i have seen other people my level or lower do the same thing with the same monsters, or in the lower level bracket kill a shitton of those mobs in WPL with barley even a scratch, while if im lucky enough to survive 3-4 mobs, i will have about 1000 life left after the fight, (this is using ret aura\blessing of santuary or whatever, and rightous fury, SoL\JoL or maybe JoW\SoL if i need both life and healthm) yet i still get owned.

my siggy is a link to my armory, so if you see a problem there let me know, otherwise do i just suck @ paladin's?

thanks

~@~bob
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Postby Barathorn » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:41 am

Hello!

I would suggest you read, or re-read all of the stickies regarding gear, the most important thing you can do right now is get to 70 and get rid of some of the equipment you have, it simply isn't going to cut it I am afraid.

That would probably explain why you are experiancing problems, your skill level will not compensate for the gear you have. Some of it is ok, but most of it, without meaning to be harsh, is Trash.

Get to 70, re equip, get some blue items, work on 490 defense [good sticky on gearing up pre raids] and get yourself in instances tanking. Experiance will help you while you gear up.

Best of luck!

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Postby Lookit » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:55 am

I think the main thing is that you're still crittable, which with 5+ mobs beating on you means you're going down a lot faster than if you weren't. Stack some more defense and even resilience if you can get some decent pvp gear, namely the S2 spelldamage mace or shield (at level 70).
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Postby Taraxacum » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:29 am

I've just come from being your lvl to hitting 70 in the last day or two so I know what it's been like for you. I am also very much still learning tanking theory here but . . .

Your gear certainly is most likely the major factor. I can only presume you were using what showing in your armoury now and if so there are two stats which you have that are a fair bit lower than mine where.

Defense (including all your dodge etc.) : This is a fair bit lower than mine was and will be leading to all that damage thats getting you killed. I was far from uncritable but around 10% higher than yours and that will reduce the damage taken by a fair amount when you have 6 or so mobs on you. Change this and you'll live longer.

Spell damage: Yours is showing as 89, my 'grinding set' was around 240. Up this and the mobs will die a lot faster. You have some +AP which although never bad has very little effect on the damage we output. Go +SD all the way.

My gear was mainly AH greens - a good mix of 'champion' and 'sorcerer'. This made me live a little longer in fights and the mobs die quicker due to higher spell damage which is were most of our damage comes from. Also if mana is a issue for the longer fights downrank your holy shield - the poison from the lichen shield will still help them die and the longer you can keep it up the longer you live and hopefully get a couple more consecrations in to finish off that bit of health they have left.
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Postby Marker » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:39 am

for how long is the PLG the best option for AoE farming? Say you get a +dmg shield with spikes on it, how much +dmg do you need to have roughly to compete with the PLG?
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Postby Levantine » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:42 am

Marker wrote:for how long is the PLG the best option for AoE farming? Say you get a +dmg shield with spikes on it, how much +dmg do you need to have roughly to compete with the PLG?


No such amount exists on a single shield.
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Postby jere » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:57 am

To be exact, the PLG puts out 12 dmg every 3 seconds per stack (up to 5) or 60 dmg every 3 seconds = 20 DPS and 20 TPS

You need enough spell dmg to cover that. For AoE, that means you need enough spell dmg to make your consecrate tick for about the same in threat or dmg, depending on what you are looking for..

I forget the exact coefficient for consecrate, but I think it is 95% over 8 seconds:

For threat:
[(20/1.9)*8]/0.95 = 88.64 spell dmg

For dmg it is 1.9 times more or 168.42 spell dmg
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Postby Marker » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:53 am

Is HS and Ret aura unaffected by +dmg?
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Postby Levantine » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:56 am

Ret Aura doesnt' scale at all.

Holy Shield gets something pathetic like .05%
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Postby Spectrum » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:01 pm

It's all about the gear. You want to get your block up to the point that it's entirely negating the hits (not hard with PLG + lvl70 blues) and then you just max out your dodge, miss, parry, and block. This means lots of defense and/or block rating.

I remember doing those guys shortly after I hit 70 and I could do about 8 at a time comfortably. Now I can easily do 12-15 in my grinding set.

Your grinding set should really probably be a decent amount of BV, PLG, and as much block + avoidance as possible. SD isn't such a big deal on those because you'll get good mana back from JoW/SoW, and it's more important to scale up the number of mobs, making consecrate more mana efficient.

You don't want to use exorcism on AE groups. If you have more than 5 mobs it's barely worth it to use HS because it always does a set amount of damage (about 1600 with all charges). Better to just sit back, keep BoW/SoW up and spam a higher ranked consecrate. HS is only a better dmg/mana on lower numbers of mobs, and then you run the risk of not using all the charges.
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Postby Marker » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:05 pm

does consecrate suffer from diminishing returns when you pass a certain number of targets or is it different since due to it's mechanics?
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Postby jere » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:09 pm

The number of targets does not affect consecration at all.
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Postby Arcand » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:32 pm

Levantine wrote:Holy Shield gets something pathetic like .05%


5% or 0.05 per block, so potentially 40% or 0.40 per cast if the bad guy(s) eat all the charges.

...which is probably what you meant anyway?
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Postby Levantine » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:35 pm

Arcand wrote:
Levantine wrote:Holy Shield gets something pathetic like .05%


5% or 0.05 per block, so potentially 40% or 0.40 per cast if the bad guy(s) eat all the charges.

...which is probably what you meant anyway?


Probably. It was very very late at night when I wrote that.
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