Armor

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Armor

Postby Acro » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:38 pm

Lol....silly question but to be honest i never really learn the value of Armor vs avoidence and stam. I wanna know so in future refrences i can determine wich item is better. This question has come up due to i have recently reached 13k hp unbuffed and uncrushable in my gear. And i wanna know wich cloak is better for tanking 25 man bosses.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24253

or

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28660

I aint sure if the extra armor is better then the 6 stam the Blue one has. Biggest prob i have on switching is rather silly but i wont have 13k unbuffed if i do wich is something i dont wanna lose and plus i got the gaurdian stones for +12 dodge to cloak and am wondering if i should put it on my current cloak or wait to get the one off illhoof.

Thx in advance
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Postby Aergis » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:55 pm

Personally I went with Gilded Thorium Cloak. I have devilshark too with +12 dodge, but I like the armor better.

Basically the small amounts of armor you see on rings and cloaks is not much when taken alone, 350 armor isn't a whole lot when compared to 1% dodge. The trick is that it adds up rather quickly, and is guaranteed to both reduce the damage taken per hit that does land and increase your effective HP. So say you get 385 armor on cloak, enchant it with +120 armor, then get armor rings ( violet eye one and shermanar greatring ). Since you also took toughness, you end up with an extra 1250 armor from your rings and cloak alone.

1250 armor is like not wearing your plate chestpiece, or having an extra imp devo aura on you... It reduces each hit by 1-2% ( not sure on the exact number, depends on how much armor you already have ). When things hit for 8-10k, that alone will reduce each hit by at least 800-1000 damage per hit.

I would keep the stones though, but save them for when you get devilshark cape ( which I would still go get, if I were you ). Then you can swap in a super +dodge cape, for when things hit for small numbers and dodge is more helpful than reducing small hits, in my opinion.

When talking about armor vs. avoidance, the way I have seen it work best with my gear is using lots of huge armor and stam for bosses that hit really hard, since the extra armor reduces the 10k hits as a percentage. For lots of fast smaller hits ( like prince or moroes ) dodge or block value seem to be more beneficial, since the armor doesn't pay off as well ( 1% of a 2000 damage hit is only 200 ).

Dodge is great when you completely avoid a 10k hit, and this is the way most people think, stack dodge for the big slow hitters. The problem I have found is that in the course of a 4-5 min fight, you WILL take back to back to back hits, possibly 5 or more in row. You will need the armor and HP to survive them, especially when multiple hits can come at the same time ( maulgar, for example ). So instead of trying to avoid them, I try to reduce the 10k hit down to something managable, like 6-7k.

Well, that's my opinion anyway. :lol:
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Postby Acro » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:55 pm

k i'll save them for when i get the Cloak of aran but i already have devilshark cape with +12 agi so i dont wanna put the enchant there.
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Postby Atreidies » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:58 pm

Aergis wrote:Personally I went with Gilded Thorium Cloak. I have devilshark too with +12 dodge, but I like the armor better.

Basically the small amounts of armor you see on rings and cloaks is not much when taken alone, 350 armor isn't a whole lot when compared to 1% dodge. The trick is that it adds up rather quickly, and is guaranteed to both reduce the damage taken per hit that does land and increase your effective HP. So say you get 385 armor on cloak, enchant it with +120 armor, then get armor rings ( violet eye one and shermanar greatring ). Since you also took toughness, you end up with an extra 1250 armor from your rings and cloak alone.

1250 armor is like not wearing your plate chestpiece, or having an extra imp devo aura on you... It reduces each hit by 1-2% ( not sure on the exact number, depends on how much armor you already have ). When things hit for 8-10k, that alone will reduce each hit by at least 800-1000 damage per hit.

I would keep the stones though, but save them for when you get devilshark cape ( which I would still go get, if I were you ). Then you can swap in a super +dodge cape, for when things hit for small numbers and dodge is more helpful than reducing small hits, in my opinion.

When talking about armor vs. avoidance, the way I have seen it work best with my gear is using lots of huge armor and stam for bosses that hit really hard, since the extra armor reduces the 10k hits as a percentage. For lots of fast smaller hits ( like prince or moroes ) dodge or block value seem to be more beneficial, since the armor doesn't pay off as well ( 1% of a 2000 damage hit is only 200 ).

Dodge is great when you completely avoid a 10k hit, and this is the way most people think, stack dodge for the big slow hitters. The problem I have found is that in the course of a 4-5 min fight, you WILL take back to back to back hits, possibly 5 or more in row. You will need the armor and HP to survive them, especially when multiple hits can come at the same time ( maulgar, for example ). So instead of trying to avoid them, I try to reduce the 10k hit down to something managable, like 6-7k.

Well, that's my opinion anyway. :lol:


Might want to check your math again, 1% of an 8-10k hit is 80-100, and 1% of a 2k hit is 20. This doesn't devalue the actual benefit that armor gives in terms of mitigation but it is a very skewed number.

I will copy/paste this from the Warrior forums yet again.

Note that there are significant Diminishing Returns on Mitigation; as you gain each new point of Armor, each point provides a smaller net benefit in terms of mitigation.

However, in the words of Satrina, "Mitigation is subject to diminishing returns, but Armor is not." What this means is, Armor provides a linear increase to lifespan, if not mitigation.

To better understand this, use the following examples Satrina used:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
1) I have 3000 armour and 5000 hitpoints. Against a level 60 opponent that deals 200 damage per second I will live for 38.64 seconds Now I will add 1000 armour, giving me 4000 armour. Against a level 60 opponent that deals 200 damage per second I will live for 43.18 seconds Adding 1000 armour increased my time to live by 4.54 seconds.

2) I have 6000 armour and 5000 hitpoints. Against a level 60 opponent that deals 200 damage per second I will live for 52.27 seconds Now I will add 1000 armour, giving me 7000 armour. Against a level 60 opponent that deals 200 damage per second I will live for 56.82 seconds Adding 1000 armour increased my time to live by 4.55 seconds.

3) I have 10000 armour and 5000 hitpoints. Against a level 60 opponent that deals 200 damage per second I will live for 70.45 seconds Now I will add 1000 armour, giving me 11000 armour. Against a level 60 opponent that deals 200 damage per second I will live for 75.00 seconds Adding 1000 armour increased my time to live by 4.55 seconds.
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Postby Aergis » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:11 pm

Might want to check your math again, 1% of an 8-10k hit is 80-100, and 1% of a 2k hit is 20. This doesn't devalue the actual benefit that armor gives in terms of mitigation but it is a very skewed number.


Oops, I moved a decimal place. Damnit I'm always doing that... Not sure where the copy paste comes in though, or why. Basically just says that adding X amount of armor always increases time to live by Y seconds. I'm comparing armor to dodge and incoming damage per hit, and why I chose armor for larger damage attacks rather than dodging them.
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