Sunwell and Reckoning

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Sunwell and Reckoning

Postby Elsie » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:55 am

In t6 our threat is generally considered worse than a warrior's, but in sunwell on bosses such as brutallus and twins and muru, I've been seeing the opposite once I spec'd more heavily into reckoning.

Right now I've tried 0/51/11 with 4/5 reckoning and has anyone tried 0/52/10?
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Re: Sunwell and Reckoning

Postby Shamora » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:26 am

Elsie wrote:In t6 our threat is generally considered worse than a warrior's, but in sunwell on bosses such as brutallus and twins and muru, I've been seeing the opposite once I spec'd more heavily into reckoning.

Right now I've tried 0/51/11 with 4/5 reckoning and has anyone tried 0/52/10?


http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... php?t=5124

Based on that I'd strongly recommend against ever going with 5/5 reckoning over 4/5 reckoning.
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Postby Lore » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:49 am

I'm 3/5 with a 0/51/10 spec (btw how do you have 62 talent points? ;)), my threat's excellent.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:57 am

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Postby Elsie » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am

I'm 3/5 with a 0/51/10 spec (btw how do you have 62 talent points? Wink), my threat's excellent.

Magic, normally I run 50/11 and smash the typos into oblivion.

I tried 3/5 and 4/5, so far I'm noticing better results with 4/5 (obviously) but it's up more 'when I want it.'

edit: reckoning also seems to increase the value from expertise pieces I'm getting here.
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Re: Sunwell and Reckoning

Postby Aloette » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:49 am

Shamora wrote:
Elsie wrote:In t6 our threat is generally considered worse than a warrior's, but in sunwell on bosses such as brutallus and twins and muru, I've been seeing the opposite once I spec'd more heavily into reckoning.

Right now I've tried 0/51/11 with 4/5 reckoning and has anyone tried 0/52/10?


http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... php?t=5124

Based on that I'd strongly recommend against ever going with 5/5 reckoning over 4/5 reckoning.


Why? When tanking 1 mob (raidboss) there is a clear advantage of having 5/5 reckoning over 3/5 reckoning. Things only become tricky when you're comparing uptime vs. # talent points when tanking multiple mobs.

The threat increase when tanking 1 mob is essentially linear for each additional talent point of reckoning, as you rarely ever have reckoning refreshing itself (and thus 'wasting itself').
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Postby moduspwnens » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:57 am

Yes, I suppose with all the expertise on Sunwell gear, as well as the raidwide magic damage on many encounters, AND the increased hits taken due to Sunwell Radiance, Reckoning becomes a lot more valuable.
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Re: Sunwell and Reckoning

Postby guillex » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:12 pm

Aloette wrote:
Shamora wrote:
Elsie wrote:In t6 our threat is generally considered worse than a warrior's, but in sunwell on bosses such as brutallus and twins and muru, I've been seeing the opposite once I spec'd more heavily into reckoning.

Right now I've tried 0/51/11 with 4/5 reckoning and has anyone tried 0/52/10?


http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... php?t=5124

Based on that I'd strongly recommend against ever going with 5/5 reckoning over 4/5 reckoning.


Why? When tanking 1 mob (raidboss) there is a clear advantage of having 5/5 reckoning over 3/5 reckoning. Things only become tricky when you're comparing uptime vs. # talent points when tanking multiple mobs.

The threat increase when tanking 1 mob is essentially linear for each additional talent point of reckoning, as you rarely ever have reckoning refreshing itself (and thus 'wasting itself').


Why?

Check the Reckoning Uptime Graphed thread. 4/5 and 5/5 barely have a difference over time. Why waste a point for a minute (that's my-newt) uptime increase when you could use that point somewhere else?
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Postby Lore » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:17 pm

Actually the reckoning uptime graphed thread shows that 3/5 and 5/5 are similar only when you have multiple mobs on you. Most of the time with single target tanking you'll see the same threat increase from 1 to 3 points as you will with 3 to 5 points.

It's the "where else can I spend these points" conundrum that generally makes more than 3/5 reckoning for single target not worth it.

Also, Brutallus hits you twice every 1 second, that's the equivalent of having 4 mobs on you on that graph (if I remember correctly), and he's where you need the biggest single-target threat until maybe M'uru.
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Postby Elsie » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:56 pm

The graph at hand, if brutallus is functionally equivalnt to 4 mobs and we're ~44% avoidance, and I think the graph is 50% or so, then 4/5 seems extremely close to 5/5.

Even if it isn't 5/5, there's a large gap between 3/5 and 4/5 (for the graph).

Twins is pretty threat intensive, too, if you kill sacrolash first.
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Postby Korendil » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:16 pm

What combination of reckoning and improved judgement would you recommend for off tanking Sacrolash where you kill Sacrolash first? Points for more reckoning can only be taken from improved judgement.

I'm currently 1/5 reckoning and 2/2 improved judgement. On the one hand, there's a lot of magic damage so if I was 3/5 reckoning, there's more chances for procs. On the other hand, that magic damage isn't guaranteed and I wouldn't be the primary melee target.
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Re: Sunwell and Reckoning

Postby Aloette » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:16 pm

Guillex wrote:
Aloette wrote:
Shamora wrote:
Elsie wrote:In t6 our threat is generally considered worse than a warrior's, but in sunwell on bosses such as brutallus and twins and muru, I've been seeing the opposite once I spec'd more heavily into reckoning.

Right now I've tried 0/51/11 with 4/5 reckoning and has anyone tried 0/52/10?


http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... php?t=5124

Based on that I'd strongly recommend against ever going with 5/5 reckoning over 4/5 reckoning.


Why? When tanking 1 mob (raidboss) there is a clear advantage of having 5/5 reckoning over 3/5 reckoning. Things only become tricky when you're comparing uptime vs. # talent points when tanking multiple mobs.

The threat increase when tanking 1 mob is essentially linear for each additional talent point of reckoning, as you rarely ever have reckoning refreshing itself (and thus 'wasting itself').


Why?

Check the Reckoning Uptime Graphed thread. 4/5 and 5/5 barely have a difference over time. Why waste a point for a minute (that's my-newt) uptime increase when you could use that point somewhere else?


The increase is essentially linear when only tanking 1 mob. You're nowhere near the max uptime with 5/5 when only tanking 1 mob, so there is a noticeable difference.


It's the other extreme, when you're tanking 20 mobs that 3/5 or even 2/5 have almost the same uptime as 5/5.

Even taking consideration that a fast hitting mob like Brut is the equivalent of 4 mobs on this graph, 5/5 has an uptime of just under 60%, while 3/5 has 40%. Not entirely linear at that point, but you're still getting a pretty good return on the 4th and 5th talent points.
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Postby Korendil » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:28 am

Anyone have any opinions? I need to find more tweaks to increase my tps. Checking armory for my gear probably won't help as I think I logged out in healing gear.

Korendil wrote:What combination of reckoning and improved judgement would you recommend for off tanking Sacrolash where you kill Sacrolash first? Points for more reckoning can only be taken from improved judgement.

I'm currently 1/5 reckoning and 2/2 improved judgement. On the one hand, there's a lot of magic damage so if I was 3/5 reckoning, there's more chances for procs. On the other hand, that magic damage isn't guaranteed and I wouldn't be the primary melee target.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:07 pm

Korendil wrote:Anyone have any opinions? I need to find more tweaks to increase my tps. Checking armory for my gear probably won't help as I think I logged out in healing gear.

Korendil wrote:What combination of reckoning and improved judgement would you recommend for off tanking Sacrolash where you kill Sacrolash first? Points for more reckoning can only be taken from improved judgement.

I'm currently 1/5 reckoning and 2/2 improved judgement. On the one hand, there's a lot of magic damage so if I was 3/5 reckoning, there's more chances for procs. On the other hand, that magic damage isn't guaranteed and I wouldn't be the primary melee target.
Given you have 1/2 Judgment, 5/5 1HWS and 3/3 Precision, more threat can be acquired basically in the form of reckoning and sanctity aura. There's not much more on the spec side. I swapped Shield Spec for Reckoning and am pretty happy with it.
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