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Prot DPS vs Prot Healing

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Prot DPS vs Prot Healing

Postby Stilgarr » Thu May 29, 2008 8:06 am

Had a quick look through the forums but could'nt really find the answer to a query I have.

I leveled this guy as Prot from pretty much day 1 and I'm still in the process of kitting him out to be able to run MH if our existing Pally tank is not online.

I've not looked at any Ret gear and the couple of healing bits I have were only going to be DE'd anyways.

I've managed to tank Prince, HKM along with the Hydros and Morogrim adds fairly well but a fair bit of the time our Warrior MTs are online in the raid too.

Apart from the Lurker add, a lot of the time I feel I'm just stood about doing very little.
Heals are too small and slow to be of much use and using the mace and shield the DPS is rather wanky too, feels more like the odd smack to keep JoW up.

I'm thinking of picking up offspec gear for the times i'm not actually tanking, but I dont know which set would be more effective out of DPS or Healing.

Our healing team is cracking so it's not like they really need the help on SSC or TK farm runs so would Ret kit and the Doomwalker 2-hander be any good at doing some mild / half decent damage ?
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Postby Caelus » Thu May 29, 2008 8:28 am

Ret DPS requires getting (especially) SoC and Crusader Strike. Both are unavailable to you as a tank. (Meh you can get SoC....)

I have all 3 sets and I am mainly prot. I do offheal and offdps(only on gorefiend) depending on the fight.

The most viable option is to offheal. With equivalent healing gear, you can perform close to 70% of what you do in full Holy spec. Where as with dps gear you can roughly do 30% of what you put out in full Ret spec.
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Postby Stilgarr » Thu May 29, 2008 8:42 am

Cheers for the answer

May as well make the healig eng helm too then :)
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Postby Morpheren » Thu May 29, 2008 9:16 am

Stilgarr wrote:Cheers for the answer

May as well make the healig eng helm too then :)


I can't see if you're horde/alliance (at work) but a 0/47/12 with one point in Imp Judgement and 1 in SoC isn't a BAD spec for prot dps, and SoC would help for soloing/dailies in ret gear.

alot of ret dps is augmented by vengance though, kinda like holy's effectiveness is augmented by illumination. Either way your either Auto-attacking/Judging or Spamming FoL on the tank.
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Postby Caelus » Thu May 29, 2008 9:46 am

Morpheren wrote:
Stilgarr wrote:Cheers for the answer

May as well make the healig eng helm too then :)


I can't see if you're horde/alliance (at work) but a 0/47/12 with one point in Imp Judgement and 1 in SoC isn't a BAD spec for prot dps, and SoC would help for soloing/dailies in ret gear.

alot of ret dps is augmented by vengance though, kinda like holy's effectiveness is augmented by illumination. Either way your either Auto-attacking/Judging or Spamming FoL on the tank.


By effectiveness, you mean mostly mana wise right? Losing 0.5 cast time on HL and 30% +heals from int is not a big deal. The main problem is losing the +crit which significantly reduces HPS. Then again ur only offhealing and lower effective MP5 and lower HPS is of negligible consequence.

Going Ret without Vengeance, Conviction, 2hander specialize, Crusader Strike, Sanct Seals, is totally gimped.
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Postby Morpheren » Thu May 29, 2008 9:53 am

Caelus wrote:
Morpheren wrote:
Stilgarr wrote:Cheers for the answer

May as well make the healig eng helm too then :)


I can't see if you're horde/alliance (at work) but a 0/47/12 with one point in Imp Judgement and 1 in SoC isn't a BAD spec for prot dps, and SoC would help for soloing/dailies in ret gear.

alot of ret dps is augmented by vengance though, kinda like holy's effectiveness is augmented by illumination. Either way your either Auto-attacking/Judging or Spamming FoL on the tank.


By effectiveness, you mean mostly mana wise right? Losing 0.5 cast time on HL and 30% +heals from int is not a big deal. The main problem is losing the +crit which significantly reduces HPS. Then again ur only offhealing and lower effective MP5 and lower HPS is of negligible consequence.

Going Ret without Vengeance, Conviction, 2hander specialize, Crusader Strike, Sanct Seals, is totally gimped.


Yeah, if you try to HL as prot, you'll go oom in 8-10 casts (maybe more depending on gear level), but FoL with BoW I could keep up for an entire fight.

Usually though, if you NEED the extra healing you should have brought and extra healer. So IMO dps is the better option as extra dmg isn't ever a bad thing.
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Postby Caelus » Thu May 29, 2008 10:00 am

Morpheren wrote:Yeah, if you try to HL as prot, you'll go oom in 8-10 casts (maybe more depending on gear level), but FoL with BoW I could keep up for an entire fight.

Usually though, if you NEED the extra healing you should have brought and extra healer. So IMO dps is the better option as extra dmg isn't ever a bad thing.


Its not like extra heals is a bad thing either :)
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu May 29, 2008 10:06 am

Caelus wrote:
Morpheren wrote:Yeah, if you try to HL as prot, you'll go oom in 8-10 casts (maybe more depending on gear level), but FoL with BoW I could keep up for an entire fight.

Usually though, if you NEED the extra healing you should have brought and extra healer. So IMO dps is the better option as extra dmg isn't ever a bad thing.


Its not like extra heals is a bad thing either :)
Simply put, both are largely unnecessary to the raid. On a healer intensive fight, you probably want to offheal or just spam the tank, on a dps race you probably want to play ret.

Another interesting fact: Fury gear DW nets more dps on a prot warrior than ret gear 2H does on a prot pally. If it's really a dps race and a tank is loose you probably want the warrior to dps.
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Postby Catriona » Thu May 29, 2008 12:44 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:
Caelus wrote:
Morpheren wrote:Yeah, if you try to HL as prot, you'll go oom in 8-10 casts (maybe more depending on gear level), but FoL with BoW I could keep up for an entire fight.

Usually though, if you NEED the extra healing you should have brought and extra healer. So IMO dps is the better option as extra dmg isn't ever a bad thing.


Its not like extra heals is a bad thing either :)
Simply put, both are largely unnecessary to the raid. On a healer intensive fight, you probably want to offheal or just spam the tank, on a dps race you probably want to play ret.

Another interesting fact: Fury gear DW nets more dps on a prot warrior than ret gear 2H does on a prot pally. If it's really a dps race and a tank is loose you probably want the warrior to dps.

More reason for us to MT. ;)
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu May 29, 2008 12:47 pm

Catriona wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Caelus wrote:
Morpheren wrote:Yeah, if you try to HL as prot, you'll go oom in 8-10 casts (maybe more depending on gear level), but FoL with BoW I could keep up for an entire fight.

Usually though, if you NEED the extra healing you should have brought and extra healer. So IMO dps is the better option as extra dmg isn't ever a bad thing.


Its not like extra heals is a bad thing either :)
Simply put, both are largely unnecessary to the raid. On a healer intensive fight, you probably want to offheal or just spam the tank, on a dps race you probably want to play ret.

Another interesting fact: Fury gear DW nets more dps on a prot warrior than ret gear 2H does on a prot pally. If it's really a dps race and a tank is loose you probably want the warrior to dps.

More reason for us to MT. ;)
Did another Teron race with me tanking and the usual tank in fury gear. I take 10k~ more damage than he does over the full fight. Healers were like (hm? Really?), and while I do 500 dps in ret gear, he does 1000 dps in fury gear(both in prot spec).500 extra raid dps is nothing to laugh at.
Splug gave a very good example of it working too: when it's not his turn on brutallus he switches to zerk dw does his thing and goes back to prot + shield when it's his turn to taunt.
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Postby Catriona » Thu May 29, 2008 1:02 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:
Catriona wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:Simply put, both are largely unnecessary to the raid. On a healer intensive fight, you probably want to offheal or just spam the tank, on a dps race you probably want to play ret.

Another interesting fact: Fury gear DW nets more dps on a prot warrior than ret gear 2H does on a prot pally. If it's really a dps race and a tank is loose you probably want the warrior to dps.

More reason for us to MT. ;)
Did another Teron race with me tanking and the usual tank in fury gear. I take 10k~ more damage than he does over the full fight. Healers were like (hm? Really?), and while I do 500 dps in ret gear, he does 1000 dps in fury gear(both in prot spec).500 extra raid dps is nothing to laugh at.
Splug gave a very good example of it working too: when it's not his turn on brutallus he switches to zerk dw does his thing and goes back to prot + shield when it's his turn to taunt.

Our tank has expressed his concern that his gearswitcher would bug and not put his shield back on, causing him to get OMGWTFBBQ squashed next time Brut looked at him. /laughs
I do wonder just how much damage we could add with him actually trying it though; we've had some stupidly low wipes.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu May 29, 2008 1:13 pm

Given it's a long fight where he'll stand about 3 minutes DPSing, I say it's fairly significant. Say he does 700 dps devastate spamming in zerker with 2 weapons, while he does 500 in his tanky form. that's 200 extra dps over 3 minutes, or 36k more damage. If you ride the line between killing him 2 seconds into enrage and plain wiping, I'm sure that's a significant difference. Same works for druids and for pallies(go go swinging nightfall!)
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Postby Catriona » Thu May 29, 2008 1:26 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:Given it's a long fight where he'll stand about 3 minutes DPSing, I say it's fairly significant. Say he does 700 dps devastate spamming in zerker with 2 weapons, while he does 500 in his tanky form. that's 200 extra dps over 3 minutes, or 36k more damage. If you ride the line between killing him 2 seconds into enrage and plain wiping, I'm sure that's a significant difference. Same works for druids and for pallies(go go swinging nightfall!)

Nightfall got hella nerfed though. Our prot pally has been keeping tabs on procs after they nerfed it, and he's almost given up on it.
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Postby solina » Thu May 29, 2008 1:30 pm

Catriona wrote:Our tank has expressed his concern that his gearswitcher would bug and not put his shield back on, causing him to get OMGWTFBBQ squashed next time Brut looked at him. /laughs


If his gearswitcher is ItemRack, that mod is spontaneously active again and had that particular bug fixed in the last couple weeks.
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Postby Catriona » Thu May 29, 2008 1:44 pm

solina wrote:
Catriona wrote:Our tank has expressed his concern that his gearswitcher would bug and not put his shield back on, causing him to get OMGWTFBBQ squashed next time Brut looked at him. /laughs


If his gearswitcher is ItemRack, that mod is spontaneously active again and had that particular bug fixed in the last couple weeks.

I never asked him, but if it is fixed I'm glad to hear it as I chucked it for Closetgnome when I couldn't switch into my DPS set for dailies.
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