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Ardent Defender

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Postby Daine » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:00 am

I have to say I find myself convinced, attracted to and potentially aroused by this Sanctity Aura spec and lack of AD. I think being kept up through Illidan and even enrages without traps by 7 healers qualifies as everyone wanting to go harder, faster and stronger.

Actually I just want to see bigger numbers.
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:36 am

Actually AD won't rly save you on illidan since he melees for 10kish when enraged.
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Postby Daine » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:45 am

Depends on your hitpoints, but I agree it's not really realistic to have the level of health that would allow it to at Illidan. I was more getting at survivability not being an issue.
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Postby moduspwnens » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:37 am

I'm gonna go ahead and copy over my arguments from the "I want to tank giants spec" thread, as it doesn't relate as much to that one, and this is where people will be looking. They follow:

Extremity wrote:
moduspwnens wrote:
Worldie wrote:Point is that you'll hardly get the ret paladin in tanking group.


However, sacrificing 300 DPS or so from a rogue to move the Tankadin into a melee group for threat-sensitive encounters isn't a terrible idea.

EDIT: Nor is having a Holy Paladin give up Kings, PvP talents, and Divine Illumination.


or i can sacrifice a situational, leapfroggable mitigation tool and a pulling tool easily replaced with misdirect for the same benefit with the extra (tiny) boost from crusade and keep that extra dps in the melee group


Well, we can argue Ardent Defender's viability all day, but realistically its still 100% useful on anything other than Sunwell bosses, and still debatably useful on some of them.

Anyway, you're not just sacrificing it and Avenger's Shield. You're also sacrificing Shield Specialization (admittedly only 100-150 damage per hit in main tanking gear, but still free mitigation), as well as (from my spec) a point in Reckoning. You're also not using Devotion Aura (nor are your group members), and if you're getting it from a Holy Paladin, he may as well be the one offering Sanctity.

It certainly depends on your raid group, but Ardent Defender, Shield Specialization, and Avenger's Shield are tools that to me just aren't worth giving up for something a temporary group switch (like when you're the one tanking Brutallus, or Felmyst's air phase), or a Holy Paladin giving up (in a raid setting) an easily forgotten, half-mana cost buff on a three minute cooldown.

Worldie wrote:Actually i have yet to find a holy paladin willing to give up Divine Illumination. Spamming max ranked Holy Light isn't exactly mana efficient


Perhaps, but saving half mana for fifteen seconds every three minutes isn't exactly a life saver. I think it's pretty fair to say that Ardent Defender, Shield Specialization, Avenger's Shield (actually, Imp BoM that your Holy Paladin would pick up), and Devotion Aura for my group are better for me as a tank and the raid in general than Divine Illumination on one Holy Paladin.

But yeah, if both that, and being rotated into the melee group when you need it aren't possible, and you need threat, it'd probably be a good idea to drop all those things for Sanctity Aura.
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Postby Jellypop » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:02 pm

with the HMGT trinket avaiable so widely.

and that i have it.

is it feesable to drop AD simply because teh dodge from HMGT trinket already gives you enough chance of living?

atleast for hyjal trash wave, i can say a yes, but what about against bosses?
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:27 pm

Actually in hyjal waves that trinket is quite useless since you get below 35% when you are stunned, and while stunned you can't dodge.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

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Postby Pelendralaar » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:31 pm

It depends on what you are tanking.

If you are tanking melee mobs in Hyjal or felmyst adds i could see you getting away w/o AD.

But if you are on void spawn duty, for M'uru, you may want it depending on how many groups you are tanking. They do shadowbolt volley which the trinket will do nothing for you.
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Postby Jellypop » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:29 pm

Worldie wrote:Actually in hyjal waves that trinket is quite useless since you get below 35% when you are stunned, and while stunned you can't dodge.


I guess, but they usually only get me down to 35% at the end of the stun anyways, and the proc is longer then stun.

after i get out of stun if i was still low i usually pop pocketwatch.



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