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Dodge Gear

Postby Brave Sir Thalus » Sun May 18, 2008 11:55 am

I've heard talk of a 'Dodge Set' in various threads, which I assume is for times when you want to completely not get hit as much as possible. My question is: Does Parry count in a Dodge set, or is there a reason why it have to be Dodge? What are the benefits of Dodge over Parry?
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Postby Blutreich » Sun May 18, 2008 11:56 am

parry you need more rating and more item points to get the same % avoidance.
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Postby Skwigelf » Sun May 18, 2008 12:00 pm

Blutreich wrote:parry you need more rating and more item points to get the same % avoidance.


Yeppers.

18.9 Dodge rating = 1% Dodge Chance
23.65 Parry Rating = 1% Parry Chance
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Postby Brave Sir Thalus » Sun May 18, 2008 12:05 pm

But if I have two items, one has Def that gives (say) 0.5% parry and 0.5% dodge, and one that has 1.5% Parry, would the Parry one be better, or is there a reason I should use Dodge?
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Postby Blutreich » Sun May 18, 2008 12:09 pm

what ever has the most avoidance is better, it is rarely parry that is why it is called a dodge set, parry has the advantage of hastening your attacks for more threat (and with you attacking more they can parry you more hastening their attacks back but not enough to matter much)
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Postby Brave Sir Thalus » Sun May 18, 2008 12:37 pm

OK, thanks :)

What should I be looking for from a fight to use my Dodge gear? I *think* it helps on second boss of BM, to hopefully lose the healing debuff, but not 100% sure about that..
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Postby Fridmarr » Sun May 18, 2008 12:49 pm

Brave Sir Thalus wrote:OK, thanks :)

What should I be looking for from a fight to use my Dodge gear? I *think* it helps on second boss of BM, to hopefully lose the healing debuff, but not 100% sure about that..


Generally dodge is used on big hitters, once you have enough stamina to eat a few hits without being healed. You are correct about that BM boss, he needs to hit you to get that healing debuff and with ample avoidance, you can keep it from stacking too high. I believe you can still bubble it off once as well.
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Postby Elvidnir » Sun May 18, 2008 12:51 pm

You may want to use a healthy amount of dodge if you're tanking Prince at the appropriate gear level. There are a handful of bosses that hit hard enough/often enough that extra dodge is good.

My current "dodge set" puts me around 27% dodge, which is pretty insane.

That said, I've tanked quite a bit of stuff and my currently most-used gear set is just under 20% dodge, 16% parry and 27% block. Exactly 490 def. 14900 hp unbuffed. I find that it's a good balance between avoidance and mitigation, and keeping block high is good for reflective threat.

Generally speaking, you may want to stack extra avoidance in the following circumstances:

Boss hits very fast. (Prince Malch, most dual-wielding bosses)
Boss hits very hard. (Nightbane, most bosses with slow swing timers)

Once you outgear the encounter, you will want to drop some dodge for block and stam on the dual-wield bosses. Reflective threat from blocking their swings can really let the DPS go wild. Last week we killed prince in 3:30 because we stacked ranged dps and I overgear the fight. It was cool.
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Postby Makaijin » Sun May 18, 2008 12:54 pm

It's just a term when people mention dodge set. The true name should be Pure Avoidance set. You can stack any of the pure avoidance stats, but since you get the most bang for your buck with dodge rating, and dodge items are plentiful compared to other other pure avoidance stats like parry, people just call it a dodge set because of it.
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Postby Brave Sir Thalus » Sun May 18, 2008 4:55 pm

Makaijin wrote:It's just a term when people mention dodge set. The true name should be Pure Avoidance set. You can stack any of the pure avoidance stats, but since you get the most bang for your buck with dodge rating, and dodge items are plentiful compared to other other pure avoidance stats like parry, people just call it a dodge set because of it.


That's exactly what I was wondering, thanks :)

Elvidnir wrote:You may want to use a healthy amount of dodge if you're tanking Prince at the appropriate gear level. There are a handful of bosses that hit hard enough/often enough that extra dodge is good.

My current "dodge set" puts me around 27% dodge, which is pretty insane.

That said, I've tanked quite a bit of stuff and my currently most-used gear set is just under 20% dodge, 16% parry and 27% block. Exactly 490 def. 14900 hp unbuffed. I find that it's a good balance between avoidance and mitigation, and keeping block high is good for reflective threat.

Generally speaking, you may want to stack extra avoidance in the following circumstances:

Boss hits very fast. (Prince Malch, most dual-wielding bosses)
Boss hits very hard. (Nightbane, most bosses with slow swing timers)

Once you outgear the encounter, you will want to drop some dodge for block and stam on the dual-wield bosses. Reflective threat from blocking their swings can really let the DPS go wild. Last week we killed prince in 3:30 because we stacked ranged dps and I overgear the fight. It was cool.


I tanked the Prince for the first time last week.. we one-shotted him, and I used the tactic of stopping attacks during phase 2 to negate the parry.. worked very well, even though I think I might have been ever so slightly crushable unbuffed (though raid buffs probably took that off)

I'm got some badge upgrades on Friday that took me past Unrushable and Uncrittable - and gave me the uber HP of 13337. I R leet. Now I need to start on specialising my gear sets for Block/Dodge/EH/Threat.. The fun part! :twisted:
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Postby Meatydog » Thu May 29, 2008 11:36 pm

Isnt dodge a bad thing to have in a instance?
Cause if your dodging the hit your not gaining threat are you?
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Postby Ashmadai » Fri May 30, 2008 5:46 am

Well you don't have to be getting hit to use consecrate, seal, and judgement of righteousness. You are correct in that higher avoidance means less Holy shield threat, which is exactly why in heroics you shouldn't be wearing a high pure avoidance set.

For heroics, I stack Stam to over 16k unbuffed HP and trade in pieces of gear with some block value instead of dodge for instance.

For ZA or 25 mans I go back to my avoidance set which is about 15.5k unbuffed but with almost 55% pure avoidance unbuffed.

It all depends on the situation. Trust me, on a boss, you shouldn't be having threat issues even with good avoidance. You're still going to be shield blocking a lot of attacks and getting that holy shield threat.
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Postby Lookit » Fri May 30, 2008 9:26 am

Brave Sir Thalus wrote:But if I have two items, one has Def that gives (say) 0.5% parry and 0.5% dodge, and one that has 1.5% Parry, would the Parry one be better, or is there a reason I should use Dodge?


Defense gives equal amounts of parry, dodge, miss, and block. So an item that gave you 0.5% parry and dodge would also give you 0.5% chance to be missed and to block, for a total of 1.5% pure avoidance and 2% uncrushability.

I know you were just using a random example, but I thought I'd throw that in there :)

Also, the reason that parry is a more expensive stat is because it gives an additional benefit over dodge: anytime you parry an attack, your next melee swing is hasted. This means you get extra threat from doing more swings with SoR.

If you're looking at two items, one that has say 38 dodge rating and one that has 38 parry rating, you'd have to decide whether you wanted the extra avoidance on the dodge piece (2% avoidance) or the decreased avoidance but extra threat of the parry (1.6% avoidance).

Most pallies opt for the increased avoidance over the somewhat minimal threat increase, which is why you'll find most people here advising dodge over parry.

For warriors, it's a much different story, because they DO gain rage when they parry an attack but DO NOT gain rage when they dodge one. This makes parry a lot sexier for them, and the threat increase is often worth the avoidance loss.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Fri May 30, 2008 10:21 am

Meatydog wrote:Isnt dodge a bad thing to have in a instance?
Cause if your dodging the hit your not gaining threat are you?


The vast majority of your threat is from Consecrate and SoR/JoR; Holy Shield is definitely a factor, but not nearly as much as some people think.

The problem with having too much dodge for an instance is if you start taking so little damage that you run out of mana.

Which is why sometimes it's necessary to take off your pants.
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Postby Morpheren » Fri May 30, 2008 11:49 am

fuzzygeek wrote:The problem with having too much dodge for an instance is if you start taking so little damage that you run out of mana.


The real problem with having too much dodge (and not enough EH) is that your healers might get lazy and if you DON'T dodge/miss/parry a short string of attacks, you're dead before anybody can react.
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