BT/SWP healing

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BT/SWP healing

Postby Thark » Wed May 14, 2008 2:21 pm

With some recent tank issues, I've been playing a Protection Paladin more and more in raids. For the past two weeks I've been raiding BT and Sunwell.

I've tanked trash, and a few bosses, but since we have full T6 warriors and druids, they usually tank bosses, and I end up healing. I've done all of the encounters as a Hunter, and I used to play a priest, so I know the fights and understand healing. I know as a protection specced paladin I will not keep up with the other healers. I also get the crap assignments and focus on dispelling, seals, and other small things that I can do.

Most of the time, I still feel fairly useful. I'm the guild leader and a raid leader though, so I'm trying hard to avoid the impression that I'm just playing this character to gear it up. I am mostly just a loot sponge most of the time. I know this is natural, because I'm by far the worst geared tank and need drops. But our options are to try and recruit another T6 protection warrior and have them learn our playstyle, recruit a lesser geared protection warrior and gear them up, or have me reroll and finish gearing up. We haven't had a protection paladin in the past, so it's new to all of us. A lot of the time (like Hyjal), it's very nice. I keep aggro and I don't die. I also have increased utility when not tanking. I'm seeming to do fine as a tank (except for the Flames of Azzinoth).

But my biggest concern is when I'm not tanking. I'd obviously like to be the one tanking, but when someone else can do it better, I step aside. As the least geared tank, this means I'm always stepping aside on bosses. I want to be a better healer, as protection spec. The paladins in my guild really don't have too much advice - mainly just to always spam flash of light.

What do the majority of you do when healing? Are you primarily raid or tank healing? I know Holy paladins work better as tank healers, but is that the same for me? Should I mostly keep up the Flash of Light spam, or try and work in Holy Light?

Last night I was trash healing in SWP (odd, right?). I could never land a holy light before the target was topped off, and flash of light just seems to do so little. Perhaps I'm still too used to healing as a priest, and don't follow Paladin healing as well. But on a fight like Kalecgos or the Council when I have a specific tank target to heal, I feel that I can perform fairly well. Other times I'm far behind - and I'm not sure if I need to target differently, or cast different heals. I'm that kind of player that won't be satisfied until I'm on par with our regular healers (even though I think very highly of them).

I feel pretty decent about my gear. Armory should have me logged out in healing gear. I have a pretty decent set except I don't have a healing weapon. As an alt until recently, I've always passed for off-specced healers. I'm planning on re-gemming to remove the green gems, so any advice there would also help a bit. I usually go with +heal for red, +heal/+MP for blue, and +heal/+INT for yellow. My gear is mainly just a collection of the best items that have been rotting. I usually value +healing and +MP/5, but a lot of my gear has haste on it as well. What value is Haste to me?

Any help would be appreciated. I've found a lot of really great posts here that have helped me with everything, but I've found a lot less about healing as a tank. Let me know if there's anything I left out.
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Postby Kelaan » Wed May 14, 2008 3:53 pm

The gear forum has a good thread on a healing set for prot-specced paladins:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... .php?t=486

Basically, you will really be hurting for mana regen, as you won't have Illumination -- which means spell crit is much less useful, and raw mp/5 is much more valued. You also are unlikely to be spamming HL, so FoL-based gearing (mana/5 enough to last, and then stack +healing or crit as you like, I guess?) seems to be the order of the day.

edit:
Also, keep in mind that meeting socket bonuses isn't necessarily something you want -- just as for tanking or DPS gear, not all socket bonuses are worth pursuing. Someone in the thread I linked mentioned getting mana/5 over +100 mana/5 ; you may consider mana/5 gems, or wearing mail gear (if shamans don't need it) if it supports that goal -- as most healing plate is itemized for spell-crit instead of mana/5.
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Postby Kitria » Wed May 14, 2008 4:28 pm

Stack +heal and mp5 and spam FoL is abotu all you can do as prot for healing.
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Postby Thark » Thu May 15, 2008 7:15 am

Thanks for the help, but my questions are really more about the playstyle than gear. I was looking for some feedback about target and spell selection.

Last night we had poor raid balance, so I went holy and healed BT through Gorefiend. Most bosses I did pretty well, falling at about 80% of a T6 full time healer. Some, like Gorefiend, or on Trash, I end up doing about 50% of the healing they do.

Nothing in that part of BT hits hard anymore. I also tried to stick to healing tanks a little more, which I think was benefical. I think a lot of it is just adjusting to healing as a Paladin, and getting experience.

Thanks for the responses.
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Postby Ryu » Thu May 15, 2008 7:29 am

SWP is all about Holy Light healing, FoL won't get you far.
As such, a protection-specced paladin is useless when it comes to healing as such in SWP.


Pre-SWP, every average-Joe holy paladin could maintain himself with FoL healing in about all situations. SWP has changed that. HL is the healing ability to use in here, basically all the time, it's figuring out when to use what ranks.

I wouldn't take a tankadin to raids if he was badly undergeared and couldnt tank much and could only put out some minor FoL heals and cleanse. It's a waste of a raid spot, which hurts when you're trying to progress.
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Postby Worldie » Thu May 15, 2008 8:10 am

I agree with Ryu, in Sunwell you can't really allow yourself on bringing wrongspecced players. Prot paladin healing will just plainly fail, there's exactly nothing you can heal with FoL spams.

It's a place where either you got the gear to do your main job, or don't go at all.
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Postby sweeney » Thu May 15, 2008 9:38 am

Any time I'm needed to heal on progression content, I respec Holy.

If it's not progression content, then it's prot-spec FoL spam alllll night baby. You simply don't have the tools to do anything fancy (I'll avoid the obvious joke that Holy spec paladins don't have many more tools).

If I'm tank healing, I probably do 80% FoL/20% HL if I end up in a spriest group, dropping HL when the tank spikes (and yes, I realize that it's probably usually too late at that point). I used to do pretty well by just raidhealing, always FoLing the lowest person just to help the "real" healers from losing anyone, but all our priests are CoH now so that niche isn't very useful.
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Postby Thark » Fri May 16, 2008 9:02 am

Thank you, that was what I was looking for.

I specced Holy for BT this week. That's helped me get a feel for healing. I'm still not a top healer, but out of 7 this week, I was around 5-7 in effective healing most of the night. I consider that a success for my first run in a mix of mostly ZA gear going against well geared healers. I'm only looking at the numbers after pointing out that my targets never died. Tuesday I was even able to keep up a tank on Kalecgos in the Demon realm by myself as prot spec.

I've been raiding as a Paladin out of necessity, not really by choice. Not that I don't like it - but when we had RL issues with a few of our tanks and fell short the choices were wait to recruit/gear another, or used the best geared alt, which was myself. Three BT clears later I now have the gear to tank in SWP, and I'll probably find myself healing a lot less now that I'm approaching a better gear level.
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Postby Levantine » Fri May 16, 2008 10:23 pm

Healing meters count for shit all though, and whoever invented them can burn to death in a house fire.

You learned how to heall effectively a little better? Yes? No one died? Mmhmm? That's all that counts. Don't look at thealing meters.
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Postby Catriona » Sat May 17, 2008 5:22 am

Levantine wrote:Healing meters count for shit all though, and whoever invented them can burn to death in a house fire.

You learned how to heall effectively a little better? Yes? No one died? Mmhmm? That's all that counts. Don't look at healing meters.

YES.
If you helped out a properly specced healer even just by Flash-o-Lighting that stupid warlock who always pulls aggro but puts out incredible DPS so he wouldn't die, it's enough. ^_^

That being said our prot pally ports out and specs to heal in Sunwell on bosses.
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Postby Levantine » Sat May 17, 2008 5:24 am

Well that's because Off Speccing in the Sunwell is generally a BAD idea, since it's unnerfed content that you don't outgear. ^^'
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Postby Thark » Sat May 17, 2008 9:14 am

I don't mean to start a debate, but I feel meters are very important, and a great way to improve, espeically in this case.

Yes, they are misused by many, but I think tools like WWS are great to see things in detail and can teach you a lot. For example I can look at healers and see what heals they are casting, who they are healing, how many heals they cast, and how much they heal for.

I can compare myself to a recent applicant who's been in BT as a pally probably less than I have, although he already has full T6 and quite a few other drops. So he out-gears me healing wise by quite a bit, but experience wise we're not all that different.

I can check a certain boss fight and see that he used Holy Light a lot more than I did, has his heals land for an average of 400(FoL)-500(HL) more than I do, and has about a 10% higher crit rate. Based off of that, I'm guessing that the better gear and higher crit rate allow him to use Holy Light a lot more before he's OOM. The fact that his heals land for so much more tells me that unless I cast significantly more heals than him, I'll never out heal him (not factoring overhealing). Since we were both casting around 85% of the time, that's not likely to happen. So in this case, I can use that information to infer that better gear would make my heals land for more, crit more returning more mana, and generally bridge the gap.

And as for me healing in Sunwell - no matter what spec I am, that's not really a good idea and something I'll try to avoid. But hey, with the bosses dropping 3 tokens now, it should only be another 2 weeks before I have mostly T6 gear for healing too. Either way, I'd rather have the healers healing and the tanks tanking.
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Postby Levantine » Sat May 17, 2008 9:28 am

WWS = good

WWS =! healing meter

Edit: By healing meters I mean Recount, Violation, SWStats etc etc. Which shouldn't even be running in raids. WWS is valuable in the breakdowns it gives, and shows where you can improve etc etc. Healing meters are all about epeen.
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Postby Worldie » Sat May 17, 2008 9:58 am

Healing meter mean nothing for a simple reason: people might have different tasks (healing tank vs healing a melee that just take the onceperminute damage), different class (paladins will have high overheal, druids near to 0 at any moment).

It's like comparing the damage of a shadowpriest with a warlock.
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Postby mazater » Mon May 19, 2008 2:50 am

You could, in theory, spec for holy/prot hybrid and still be able to heal & tank decently.

But look at it this way: If you'd raid with some of your better geared characters, you would have to recruit another tank, who's gear probably doesn't match your level of progress.

You would have to gear the other tank frist in hyjal/Bt and during that gear up 'phase' he would be as useless in bossfights as you are.

It's either you doing nothing significant or some other tank doing nothing significant during bossfights.

I think that for the guild, it would be easier that you go with the tanking and not recruit another tank, becouse it takes time for a new guy to know the guild members, your guild's way of killing bosses yadda yadda.
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