So does our threat ever catch up to Warriors/Druids?

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Postby Galrond » Wed May 14, 2008 9:46 am

I suspect I may be a bit short on SD, but my guild's warrior MT (using Mallet of the Tides) outthreats me by a significant margin, and can easily peel aggro off of me (he complains that if he doesn't stop attacking after I taunt on Bear, he just picks aggro right back up again). I have comparable gear to him in all other respects (and I do have a comparable weapon), I just suspect I may be lacking in the SD department.

We'll see on Loot Reaver I suppose.
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Postby Splug » Wed May 14, 2008 10:23 am

Paladins tend to get an edge early on, due to JotC providing a hefty chunk of spelldamage. When neither warriors nor paladins can support threat stats on their gear (your threat is fairly insignificant if you are dead), this tends to put the paladin with a fairly safe lead. However, as both classes start adding threat stats to their gear, the playing field levels out very quickly. Warriors get more threat-per-itemlevel from expertise than paladins do from spellpower, and then eventually ram into a brick wall at hit/expertise caps. In my opinion, the combination of these effects results in roughly the relative advantage/disadvantage curve Worldie described.
Worldie wrote:Making it simple, our threat is superior in T4 content, on par on T5, on par or less in T6, on par in Sunwell.


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Postby Karathos » Wed May 14, 2008 11:49 am

Worldie wrote:Making it simple, our threat is superior in T4 content, on par on T5, on par or less in T6, on par in Sunwell.

That's not true for every fight but that's it.


I will concur with Worldie on this.

Is it possible to 'out threat' a warrior past T4? I would have to say that it is quite possible. However, I have not had quite the threat issues in T6 content that seemed to plague me more in T5 content.

Being able to do that consistently usually requires choices in gearing (via threat trinkets/spell damage food/flasks/block rating instead of Avoidance/Stamina) that tend to mean that we take more damage and have lower HP/armor/avoidance than the warrior at similar content.

As an example, I have made some conscious decisions to have more block rating, instead of pure avoidance to maintain my Holy Shield threat for some content. This means (comparatively) that a warrior who is at my 'level of content' (i.e. Mount Hyjal/Black Temple) will likely have ~5% more pure avoidance than I do. (I'm working at about 45-50% avoidance, whereas tankspot recommends a warrior tank be at ~50-55% avoidance at the level of content that I am tanking in.) However this means that I am less likely to go 'out of mana' or run into streaks of poor threat due to mana starvation. It also means that even though I am past the 102.4% mark ... much of that is block value ... and can basically completely replace the +42 Block Rating libram. Part of the avoidance issue as well is related to gear that exists in T5 and early T6 content. (Unless we pick up gear that is 'warrior centric with more avoidance' we tend to end up with paladin gear, that is more block centric.)

Your mileage may vary.
That being said, I don't try to get into taunt battles with warriors because theirs is on less of a cooldown than mine.
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Postby Worldie » Wed May 14, 2008 12:10 pm

It's obviously possible to outthreat warriors in T5/6 content. However it requires a significant sacrifice in our survivabilty stats.

I remind i was easily able to push 1300 TPS early in T6 content, but that would have required me to lose uncrushabilty and around 3k HP.

Still, holding VR from 100 to 0% is serious business.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed May 14, 2008 12:45 pm

Worldie wrote:It's obviously possible to outthreat warriors in T5/6 content. However it requires a significant sacrifice in our survivabilty stats.

I remind i was easily able to push 1300 TPS early in T6 content, but that would have required me to lose uncrushabilty and around 3k HP.

Still, holding VR from 100 to 0% is serious business.


I remember when I first did leo i was in my usual survivability set, and the warriors(with early t6 gear instead of my mid-t5) would *always* hold aggro. Talk about frustration. They started venting that pally threat sucks, just like they already do with VR(they don't believe paladins are viable VR tanks O.O Good thing I abandoned that guild). I threw everythign to the air and wore all my threat pieces, caring only at having a reasonable hp and being uncrittable.
needless to say I helf aggro 100% of the fight, and no healer noticed a difference, the dpsers were happier than usual and the gm told me to not tank leo anymore.

Go figure.


Point: Paladins can get more threat than druids or warriors when you compare what each has to sacrifice for. On regular gearing, it's as worldi said too.
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Postby Morpheren » Wed May 14, 2008 12:48 pm

yeah, for threat fights i usually swap out a little crushability for EH and pure threat. 2 piece T4 and alar trinket, sometimes even the kara trash cape for soft hitters like VR, even some caster rings as I can dip a bit below 490 with my S2 shoulders (loot tables hate me)
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu May 15, 2008 9:41 am

Wyleai wrote:To be honest, I keep waiting for the nerf bat to hit tankadins really hard. They're just too good compared to the other options. When its this smooth and fun to play, you know Blizzard is going to wack it.


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