5/5 Reckoning or 2/2 Spell warding and 3/3 Precision?

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5/5 Reckoning or 2/2 Spell warding and 3/3 Precision?

Postby Ashmadai » Mon May 12, 2008 7:28 am

I haven't had reckoning in my spec since I started raiding, and I've never had problems with threat or anything. However, I changed my spec to drop Precision and Spell Warding and put 5/5 Reckoning to go AoE farm some stuff for kicks, and I was thinking I might actually leave the spec that way for a while to see how it might affect threat.

Any thoughts on what kind of effect this will have? I'm kind of afraid losing Precision is going to cost me more threat than having Reckoning is going to gain me. I'm talking about single target main tanking as well as trash, but I'm more worried about bosses.
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Postby moduspwnens » Mon May 12, 2008 8:42 am

I wouldn't ever give up Precision. 3% chance to hit with spells is a big thing, since we (probably) don't have spell hit elsewhere and the resist rate is 17% against a level 73 mob. For only three talent points, it's relatively cheap in the cost/benefit ratio.

Of course, it also increases your chance to hit with taunts and melee by 3%, and I like this, too.

If you want to pick up Reckoning, I'd recommend a spec more like mine. I wouldn't drop Precision, though.
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Postby Koopa » Mon May 12, 2008 9:39 am

I do not see any particular value from Spell Warding. 4% damage reduction from spells is not thát much (HEY! I got hit for 8000, but took only 7680 damage due to Spell Warding!). In my spec, I have 3/3 Precision and 2/5 Reckoning, but I am inconclusive to whether it's a good spec or not, since I have not gotten to test it in raid yet.
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Postby Baelor » Mon May 12, 2008 10:18 am

Koopa wrote:I do not see any particular value from Spell Warding. 4% damage reduction from spells is not thát much (HEY! I got hit for 8000, but took only 7680 damage due to Spell Warding!).


Hey! I got hit for a 8000 physical hit, but only took 7680 due to some points in Toughness!

You see, that argument can be applied to either talent, and you don't see many (if any) paladins skimping on Toughness. Damage reduction is damage reduction is damage reduction - Spell Warding is a percentage based damage chop-job. Don't dismiss it because you think 4% damage reduction is a trivial amount, because if you do, I challenge you to suggest all paladins run with 3/5 Toughness as standard and see what they say.
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Postby juggi » Sat May 17, 2008 4:01 am

4% is what a lot of people use to claim we shouldn't be tanking bosses. So yeah I'd say its pretty damn important to take whatever mitigation we can get.
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Postby Senturus1 » Tue May 20, 2008 11:24 pm

Yeah I would say go with 3/3 precision and 2/2 spell warding. I occasionally see prot pallies without it and wonder why. thats trivial 320 damage you DIDNT take, could mean the dif between dying and wiping, and not dying. In a raid situation, I have been hit down to under 100 before and lived. That little bit of mitigation was what saved my butt. It adds up.


And heres the thing about reckoning. THe only time y ou will reliably have it up is when AOE tanking, yet it only increases threat to single targets. You cant rely on it being up when you are tanking a boss, the only time it is really useful. Really not worth 5 points.
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Postby Seloei » Wed May 21, 2008 12:20 am

Depends highly on the content/encounter. Spell warding can save you or it can only take up 2 points. Having a hard time imagining what bosses in t4 content (which you tank) do insane amounts of spelldamage.
t5 content however : kael, leo demon, hydross, a'lar. and the others are either too low or you want to get hit more.
I dropped it for the mount runs (since i only tank very few in bt) but starting to consider taking it back instead of +3% raid crit. No ret palas in raid and won't be seeing one for ages also.

And in any case, if you drop to less than what that extra 4% could have saved you, something is going really wrong and you shouldn't be dropping THAT low at all. Ideally you will sit at 60%+ at all times and get a few overheals from time to time.
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Postby Aloette » Wed May 21, 2008 6:53 am

It boggles my mind why anyone would ever consider droping Precision, or including it in a "Talent X vs Precision" post.

The miss rates are fairly high on 73 bossmobs (9% melee, 17% spell), and you won't make up a lot of either through gear. Since SoV/SoR are miss-resistable skills, Precision helps tremendously here.

As far as Spell Warding goes, it's not a make or break talent, but it's nice to have for progression kills, especially if you're healers are undergeared, or slow to react to spike damage. Just go look at some WWS reports for the fight you're doing, and calculate what 4% of the incoming spell damage on the tank is. Decide from there.
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