Another threat spec idea

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Postby Rorshach » Tue May 13, 2008 11:13 pm

My spec is based off of Worldie's but is slightly different:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVotIh0zGgoxVsx0hcz
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Postby Edgarstrong » Wed May 14, 2008 12:39 am

I am going to try this spec today:

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basic ... 0100000000

I am taking full Imp SoCr and full Crusade but only 2/3 PoJ. Not sure about it, may be I should take 3/3 PoJ and only 2/3 Crusade.


I have a question for Worldie:

Wouldn't it be better to move 1 point from Crussade to Imp JotCr in your build? Since 1 extra % crit to all DPSers seems to outweight 1% damage done by us.
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Postby Worldie » Wed May 14, 2008 3:14 am

Not really, their DPS is high enough and increasing it isn't exactly what i want.

But tbh i'm quite thinking of moving one point from Imp Judgement to 3/3 Imp JoCr. In fact 9 seconds judgement overlaps less with other skills so in theory it should allow for more TPS.
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Postby jere » Wed May 14, 2008 6:16 am

The funny thing is that Imp. SotC is actually an effective decrease in relative TPS for you, but only like a percent or two, and the rest of your spec makes up for that anyways.
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Postby Jonesy » Wed May 14, 2008 7:26 am

Putting a point in Vindication will proc JoW even though boss mobs are immune.
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Postby Baelor » Wed May 14, 2008 7:50 am

Jonesy wrote:Putting a point in Vindication will proc JoW even though boss mobs are immune.

That has proven to be false.

What people were experiencing was a bug with JoW - when you have a debuff judgment judged by yourself other than JoW, and you attack the target, your attack refreshes your judgment. That refresh counts as another action, and has a chance to proc JoW in addition to the attack itself.
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Postby Worldie » Wed May 14, 2008 9:05 am

It's not like 74 mana every 3~ seconds is going to change your life.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Baelor » Wed May 14, 2008 9:43 am

Worldie wrote:It's not like 74 mana every 3~ seconds is going to change your life.

Does for me. But then again, I'm ret and I'm not actively taking damage to get healed for SA regen.
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Postby Worldie » Wed May 14, 2008 10:39 am

Ret is different issue :P

I was speaking about a prot.

That tho brings me a question, so in fact when i spec ret the point i put in Vindication is completely useless?
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Baelor » Wed May 14, 2008 11:19 am

Worldie wrote:Ret is different issue :P

I was speaking about a prot.

That tho brings me a question, so in fact when i spec ret the point i put in Vindication is completely useless?

Drop the point from Vindication. Over at EJ this has been under discussion for a while, and I saw a pretty definitive WWS parse of a holy paladin auto-attacking the Blasted Lands invincible mob after juding Light and another paladin judging Wisdom. The Light judger did not have Vindication, and had another paladin there keeping Wisdom up at all times for him.

He ran two tests. First was just himself, 20 minutes with the Blasted Lands mob, judged Wisdom and auto-attacked, 700+ swings. Received a 50% proc rate on JoW
http://elitistjerks.com/730727-post3771.html

Second test, with two paladins. He judged Light and the other judged Wisdom, and auto-attacked (accidently throwing 1 Holy Shock as well). 630+ swings, ~100% proc rate on JoW.
http://elitistjerks.com/730905-post3781.html

To me, that tells me that source of extra procs is having a non-Wisdom debuff Judgment up and refreshing it while Wisdom is also judged. Phantom Vindication procs have not be conclusively proven to be helpful. If you like, just go out to the Blasted Lands, beat on the invicible mob with Wisdom judged and Vindication in your spec, and parse your proc rate. If you're anywhere near 50% rather than upwards of 80%, I'd attribute the extra JoW procs to refreshes of Light/Crusaser.

My conclusion? Vindication is a PvP talent and should be treated as such. Spend elsewhere for Ret PvE DPS.
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Postby farmerjohn » Wed May 14, 2008 12:55 pm

Baelor, you are correct. On the weekends when I am ret, sometimes I go in an instance, while ret pvp spec. All the immune I see has to be coming from vindication as I am fully spec'd into it. I shall WWS it next time.
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Postby DeadMilliken » Wed May 14, 2008 2:28 pm

If you can get one...a Ret pally is better.
You get only 1% less threat (Sanct Improved vs Sanct unimproved + Crusade) and get to keep shield throw and AD.
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Postby Rorshach » Wed May 14, 2008 2:32 pm

DeadMilliken wrote:If you can get one...a Ret pally is better.
You get only 1% less threat (Sanct Improved vs Sanct unimproved + Crusade) and get to keep shield throw and AD.


We have a ret pally, he is in the melee group. Our raids are all maximised for DPS over anything else. It's worked out pretty well so far, even if I don't benefit from our resident ret pally.
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Postby DeadMilliken » Wed May 14, 2008 2:39 pm

Rorshach wrote:
DeadMilliken wrote:If you can get one...a Ret pally is better.
You get only 1% less threat (Sanct Improved vs Sanct unimproved + Crusade) and get to keep shield throw and AD.


We have a ret pally, he is in the melee group. Our raids are all maximised for DPS over anything else. It's worked out pretty well so far, even if I don't benefit from our resident ret pally.


If your dps is threat capped...its to the benefit of maxing dps....

Either kick someone out of the melee dps group and join in, or..

It is certainly resonable to pull him into the tank party and if your tank party doesn't already have a shammy bring one too ;)
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Postby mungies » Wed May 14, 2008 10:41 pm

to the OP, 2% threat to gloves is amazing, and as silly as this may look http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVZVhtIx0zMgoxV0x was the single target threat build i was thinking about picking up to enhance my offtankin threat.

edit: in the mean time i'm giving the 40-21 a spin
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