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Another threat spec idea

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Another threat spec idea

Postby Ultraguy » Sun May 11, 2008 9:46 pm

Hey all, first time poster, but long time lurker.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... er&n=Haral

Here's my armory. I do zillions of heroics and Kara when I can. I'm in a guild with friends and we don't really have the people to go beyond that at the moment, and getting pugs for ZA is difficult, but I won't rest until i nab those pauldrons.

For heroics, kara, and potentially ZA, I was toying with a threat spec. Unfortunately, the internet cafe I'm at doesn't let wowhead talent calc load properly, so you'll have to bear with me.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-tale ... er&n=Haral

is my talent spec. I think it's standard. However, I was thinking about dropping:

1 point in anticipation (4 def)
5 points in one handed weapon spec (5% threat)
2 points in spell warding (4% spell damage reduction)
1 point in avenger's shield (the only thing I'm scared of losing)

I would, in turn, gain:

3 points in imp soc (3% crit boost for whole party)
2 points in poj (lovely movement speed increase, reduced chance to be hit by spells)
3 points in crusade (3% threat, seeing how i cant think of many encounters that arent affected by crusade)
1 point in sanctity aura (10% threat)

is this a wise choice in the least? I stand to lose avenger's shield and very little mitigation to gain essentially 8% threat. I could drop ardent defender instead of one handed weapon spec to give me a meaty 13% boost, but I think that's a little suicidal.

The only issue I can think of is loss of avenger's shield, which is extremely useful to me. I'm an engineer so i have access to goblin rocket launcher, but that's not nearly as useful. Besides exorcism, which is situational, do we have any other pulling tools that I'm missing? Furthermore, does the 8% threat boost make up for losing AS, which is a huge threat tool? I really have no idea.

I'd like some help on this one. Another question, actually; 20 spell dam to gloves or 2% threat? I have no idea which one is better at my gear level.

Another idea i was thinking about was imp righteousness, but I have no idea how I'd get there without sacrificing essential stuff, and the relatively dead points into divine intellect aren't too appealing. Any advice is appreciated!
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Postby sweeney » Sun May 11, 2008 9:53 pm

If you want to be convinced that Sanct Aura specs aren't that good for tanking, there's a number of threads around this subforum that make the case. If you want to be convinced that it *is* good for tanking... you have to read the same threads, squint real hard, and ignore most of the advice in them. :). It's pretty rare that people have found it to be worth it. If you're giving up 1hws to get sanctity aura, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, and again people have not found it to be worth it. (Honestly, I get enough benefit out of Avenger's Shield that I wouldn't give it up for anything, your mileage may vary.)

Any tanking spec with points in Holy is a broken one, and there's zero controversy about that. Taking full Imp SoR would probably give you less additional threat than, say, 1 point in 1hws. Add in that you have to waste 5 extra points for such a lousy benefit and it's not viable at all.

2% threat is usually considered superior due to better scaling.

Long story short, any content where you could do OK with a sanct aura spec, you can do just fine without it. Avenger's Shield is massively useful in the content you're talking about, and the upfront threat is something I'd have a really hard time giving up.
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Postby Koopa » Sun May 11, 2008 9:55 pm

I would rather remove one point in Toughness (2% armor value) than one point in Anticipation. Perhaps that's just me, but I don't see that much mitigation from 2% extra armor. :)
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Postby sweeney » Sun May 11, 2008 9:58 pm

I used to think that way as well, but as uncrushability becomes easy to attain in the gear you want to wear and your AC continues to rise, it starts looking very different. I always max Toughness but only take enough from Anticipation to make sure my threat set of choice is a hair over 485 defense. That used to be 5 points but now it's 1 or 2 depending.
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Postby Levantine » Mon May 12, 2008 12:56 am

Well you're giving up 4 Defense, 4% Spell Damage redic and our pulling tool for ~7% threat, 4% when you're fighting anything that doesn't fall under Crusade. Ehh, no thanks, I'd prefer a ranged pull.
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Postby Extremity » Mon May 12, 2008 3:02 am

The only thing you can lose for a sanctity aura spec is Ardent Defender, losing 1h spec for sanctity is stupid
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Postby Songblade » Mon May 12, 2008 6:14 am

Extremity wrote:The only thing you can lose for a sanctity aura spec is Ardent Defender, losing 1h spec for sanctity is stupid


Granted that, Ardent Defender is situational, and a lot of people have very reliable healers and don't make it below 50% health. Personally, I'd rather keep it, as many times when I finish a run, I check my Tankadin mod, and see it has avoided 13-14 deaths, at which point I realize it prevented 13-14 wipes (assuming I didn't die on one of those).
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Postby sweeney » Mon May 12, 2008 6:27 am

Yes, but the point is that there are times that someone might want to trade off survivability for avoidance. (I'd rather do it with gear than with talents, though.) In contrast, Losing 1hws for Sanc Aura/Crusade means you're giving up guaranteed threat for a very slightly higher amount of situational threat, which is just a bad deal.
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Postby Songblade » Mon May 12, 2008 6:38 am

Well yeah, but he's talking about survivability to threat. However, having Sanctity WITH 1hws and Crusade is a hell of a threat increase, and going all these talents is the only way I could see the spec even being worth it, because that is an 18% threat increase against anything that falls under Crusade, which, in my experience, is about 90% of raid mobs.
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Postby Lore » Mon May 12, 2008 7:20 am

There are a few people that do quite well with sanctity aura specs. Worldie comes to mind. It's really a situational thing that depends on your healers as much as yourself.

And yeah, Ardent Defender is really the only option to drop.
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Postby Songblade » Mon May 12, 2008 8:22 am

I, personally, have no problem with Sanctity Aura, in fact, I am still considering going for it. I just dunno if I could MT with it though. The only thing that urks me is when people drop talents that are very much needed for Sanctity Aura.
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Postby Worldie » Mon May 12, 2008 9:41 am

If you are building a threat spec i find just stupid not picking 5% damage, but that's just me.

In case you want, you can try it, but that means your healers will not be able to slack.
The only "real" mitigation talent you lose is AD, you lose 4% magic damage reduction but you get PoJ which is comparable (and lovely to run quicker)

I still do tank bosses fine (i'm atm our guild's Main Tank), just i feel a bit guilty when i fall under 35% for some reason.

Actually, we did kill Kalecgos with me using this spec, while we quite failed while i was on regular 46/15 spec, so that means fate chose my spec 8)
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Postby Songblade » Mon May 12, 2008 10:09 am

Hmmm, I see... I'll try it then.
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Postby Morpheren » Mon May 12, 2008 10:22 am

I've thought about using this one, more often than not i'm usually a little drunk when I respec ret for arena's on monday night, and in the respec back I usually think about 0/40/21 builds for hero's...

I usually decide to save the gold and go with somethign i raid with, but i may start looking into this now that i've gotten out of the raid schedule (temporarily)
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Postby Ultraguy » Mon May 12, 2008 6:03 pm

hmm, i see, i see.

but to people who've tried this (dropping ad over 1h wep spec, which i now realize makes significantly more sense lol), how do you cope with lack of shield toss? furthermore, the idea was to try this spec to make heroics go faster, allowing dps to unleash more quickly. but losing avenger's almost seems counter-productive, since i'd gain 13% threat, but lose the inital threat of avenger's shield which means my dps has to wait a little on normal pulls, which makes the whole idea pointless. though i imagine it would still be cool for bosses.
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