Is Imp. Devotion aura worth the points?

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Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Drop the Points

Poll ended at Thu May 15, 2008 8:17 pm

Yes
8
19%
No
34
81%
 
Total votes : 42

Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 5:04 am

Pizbit wrote:Maybe we run overly caster heavy then.

Enough healers to create 2 groups, so a spot for 1 per group there, plus we usually have some mages, warlocks etc...

Don't forget the holy pally should get benefits from their group members, and they get none other than a small health boost from the warrior shout.
Where as they could be with a spriest, resto shaman, moonkin etc.
Thinking only of the tanks and neglecting healing isn't a great idea.

//ed// since you ninja edited I will too, the imp aura isn't always used in every fight, but most fights have some sort of AoE damage where the normal aura alone will benefit the group.


my apologies, I am trying not to multipost as I am doing now. I would have edited my last post to include this but I would not like be accused of ninja editing ;)

That's true comment about paladins should benefit from group buffs. But, doesn't it mean the same having a resto druid instead of a holy paladin in it's place? There is X amount of healers having X amount of spots, if a paladin take a healer group's spot then some other healer is sacrificed.

As a holy paladin i'd say we're the most independant of all healers. In most BT fights, there's alot of raid damage.

Illumination (Mana) 119,904 280 428 504
Spiritual Attunement (Mana) 36,991 469 78 616
Mana Restore (Mana) 21,600 72 300 300
Restore Mana (Mana) 15,006 6 2501 2704
Spellsurge (Mana) 8,280 828 10 10
Lifebloom () 16 7 2 3

that's the amount of mana gained in my last raid on Kalecgos (mind the later numbers, just consider the first - this is copy/paste from wws). I personally think the extra "health" from commanding shout won't hurt, given I have more room to play with by getting healed by other raid healers and regaining mana.

In most BT raids where raid damage is high, I consistently find my own mana topped off by spirit attunement - especially at Illidan, so while Shadow Priest, Restoration Shamans may benefit me - it's only very little given the amount of raid damage intake.

Other buffs are kinda nice, but again - besides mana concerns, it doesn't really warrant replacing a healer for another healer just because "I" the healer should get the buff instead of "him" the healer.
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Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 5:07 am

Mazater wrote:
Arquine wrote:Yes, Gruul but I'm no longer at that "Gruul stage". Nalorakk, Moroes and Hex are all 10 mans - I don't think you need a spec "dedicated" to that and it's not game breaking. Zul'jin, not significant enough.

This isn't about you, or me.

It's about general use for imp. consentration aura and devotion aura.
New guilds do need to look at their specs and see what's the most efficient way to raid, even 10mans.


then what you hold true. Then you can always respec for that particular boss, like all tanks respec for specific encounters. If you're doing Gruul's Lair as progress then you should spec improved concencration aura. But given it's "Gruul stage", 1k armour is a huge jump compared to the benefits you 1k armour gives to a BT tank.

edit: I'll ninja edit this again. Given it's Gruul as progression raid then it's unlikely you'll have a prot paladin tanking this one. So an optimal setup assuming 3 paladins then 1 retribution paladin for variety's sake, you can have one paladin in the tank group with imp.Dev aura providing improved BOM and another providing improved concentration aura.

I guess we can only agree with disagree weather this talent is completely worthless. It's not good 5 points to spend, arguably but ...

a paladin doing all the bosses you've mentioned bar Azgalor will probably **not** be tanking, and will have almost no use for redoubt. He can pickup both if he likes.

a holy paladin who will be tanking will probably past that stage where they need improved concentration aura for the bosses mentioned.
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Postby sweeney » Mon May 12, 2008 6:35 am

I'm afraid I'm just not following you, Arquine. I suppose we're past arguing whether a tank spec can waste 5 points on Imp Devo, so I guess I don't need to. :)

It just seems self-evident to me that Imp Conc Aura comes in quite handy at times in a number of encounters, while 200 armor is never really a dealbreaker. Sure, you could live without either, but it's not like a holy paladin has many other useful talents they're dying to spend points on.

You're right that it's not a big deal either way (although the idea that a paladin wouldn't be considered to MT Gruul or would somehow not be considered useful in ZA befuddles me, but whatever. I think I'm probably just misreading you.)
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Postby Songblade » Mon May 12, 2008 6:45 am

Devo Aura gives 861 armor...

So that means improved Devotion Aura would give you 1205...

That's an increase of not even 400... its like 340...

That will never make or break a raid.

What WILL break a raid, however, may not be redoubt, but the talent it links to, Shield Specialization. On AoE trash, this is one of the better mitigative talents we have.

Don't get me wrong, Devotion Aura is pretty good, I still use it ALOT, but improving it is not worth it by any means.
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Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 7:43 am

we're talking about holy paladin :)

if you follow the thread there's the 5th post saying the point is completely worthless


You're right that it's not a big deal either way (although the idea that a paladin wouldn't be considered to MT Gruul or would somehow not be considered useful in ZA befuddles me, but whatever. I think I'm probably just misreading you.)


i think on gruul other tanks have serious advantage over us, while paladin MTs have very little use for either talent really... points are almost always better spent elsewhere
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Postby Rorshach » Mon May 12, 2008 12:22 pm

Our tank group consists of:

Prot Pally
Prot Warrior
Tree Druid
Holy Paladin
Resto Shaman

A different group will hold the feral druid tank if we bring him (usually hunters and a shaman). Sometimes the Holy Paladin uses Imp.Conc. Aura for himself and the other two healers in the group, but sometimes he uses Devo. Aura for the tanks also depending on the fight. He is not spec'd into Imp.Devo. Aura but he does have 5 points in Imp.BoM for the melee.

When tanks are sitting at the armor levels that we are at while raiding Black Temple/Sunwell an extra 344 armor is not worth 5 talent points. That works out to about what, 0.2% mitigation at 20k armour? If that.

So totally not worth 5 talent points, its criminal how we have such a completely useless 5 point tier 1 talent.
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Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 7:05 pm

it still has way more use compared to improved rend :P
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Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 7:09 pm

Sometimes the Holy Paladin uses Imp.Conc. Aura for himself and the other two healers in the group, but sometimes he uses Devo. Aura for the tanks also depending on the fight. He is not spec'd into Imp.Devo. Aura but he does have 5 points in Imp.BoM for the melee.



unless he's not taking divine illumination, there's no way he can go for both improved concentration aura and improved BOM at the same time.
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Postby Worldie » Tue May 13, 2008 3:45 am

I do have imp devotion aura, just cause Redoubt i don't like (but i should take it if we go Brutallus with me tanking i gues...), and since i'm the one who uses Devotion when it's worth, moar armor is still moar armor, even if it's just 400.
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Postby Solessa » Tue May 13, 2008 8:17 am

I use ret aura...the holy pally in my group gets devo aura to get to kings in our tree since I specced out of it

Therefore I get the two I want...and on gimick fights I lose 400 armor for his conc...win, win
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