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Is Imp. Devotion aura worth the points?

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Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Drop the Points

Poll ended at Thu May 15, 2008 8:17 pm

Yes
8
19%
No
34
81%
 
Total votes : 42

Is Imp. Devotion aura worth the points?

Postby Pritia » Sun May 11, 2008 8:17 pm

Okay, If my sig doesn't work here is my armory page:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... d&n=Pritia

I am wondering if i should drop the Precision and Improved Judgement(?) points for Improved Devotion Aura. Any Replies would be appreciated.
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Postby Jadlak » Sun May 11, 2008 8:21 pm

Imp devotion is completely worth the points.



For a healing paladin.
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Postby sweeney » Sun May 11, 2008 9:57 pm

Imp devotion is 5 talent points for a minor gear upgrade's worth of AC that only functions when you have Devo on. Compare that to the scaling Toughness has and look at how much armor you get per point -- it's just embarrassing how different the two are in usefulness.
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Postby tuberon » Mon May 12, 2008 2:03 am

While various arguments can and have been made for Imp. Judgement, Precision is by and far better for a tank than Imp. Dumb Aura.

The clothies shouldn't be getting hit by melee, so they shouldn't need the extra melee mitigation....
Warning: Above poster makes no claims to validity or sanity of said post.

Also... cake.
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Postby mazater » Mon May 12, 2008 3:07 am

Jadlak wrote:Imp devotion is completely worth the points.



For a healing paladin.

Actually I don't quite agree with that statement.

imp. Consentration aura > imp. Devotion aura in most fights I believe.

Since imp. Consentration aura reduces the silence time (Nalorakk AoE silence for example) and gives additional spell pushback resistance for casters/healers if there is AoE damage etc. involved in the encounter.

Auras also have a fairly small range wich can be a problem in some fights (Gruul for example).

When I'm healing, I haven't ever even thought about going to the tank group and using devotion aura, becouse it doesn't help much.

Imp. devotion aura is waste of points for holy, prot AND retribution paladins imho. Hoorray for useless talent :)
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Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 3:55 am

in reply to the person above regarding holy paladins...

I'm no expert on prot paladin, but I think I can give a few wise words on healbotting :)

personally my normal spec is 41/20 which includes redoubt, 3/3 imp RF and 4/5 toughness - a decent holy paladin spec which can off-tank non-boss mobs comfortably (considering I was raiding Illidan with 4 pieces pvp gear as well).

Improved Concentration Aura, at times does have its benefits versus Improved Devotion Aura - in raiding terms -> exactly one boss: Azgalor. Other bosses don't make this skill significant enough to cost so much points. You'd be better off spending less point in prot and place 5/5 in improved BOM for raid buffing.

Improved Devotion Aura might seem like a waste of 5/5 points for a mere 200+ armour that don't even scale, but there's always atlaeast one of you in the tank group and your tanks don't need your improved concentration aura. What they need is extra armour, 1k armour is alot of effective health. Since you'll be using this aura 90% of the time, an extra 5 points for 200 armour seems like a decent investment compared to the "highly unreliable if ever used at all" redoubt. You'll need to spend atleast 11 points into prot anyway for BOK.

Is imp.dev aura worthit? No. But it is better than other alternatives.
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Postby mazater » Mon May 12, 2008 4:23 am

Arquine wrote: but there's always atlaeast one of you in the tank group and your tanks don't need your improved concentration aura.

Wait wait wait.

You actually put a holy paladin to a tank group? :shock:

The only good thing a holy paladin can do in a tanking group is giving the armor buff, wich is nothing compared to, say, Enhancement shaman for totem buffs, resto druid for spirit buff (moar healing by the druid).

Imho, a holy paladin is way more useful in healing group using consentration aura for spell pushback resist and reduced silence times.
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Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 4:37 am

I think it's a standard practice on the alliance side. We never had any shamans and even in TBC, shamans are rare at best.

First of all, as a prot paladin and prot warrior 1k armour is alot.

Secondly, spell **pushbacks** don't occur very often. 4/5 of MH bosses have no use of concentration aura, 8/9 of BT (except RoS p3) have no use of concencration aura. In places where there is a use of concentration aura, there's a better aura in place for it - for example fire for Illidan, dev aura for Bloodboil (ticks are physical).

Thirdly, an elemental shaman will benefit the casters group alot more than tanks, enchacement shamans for melee group and restoration shamans benefits the healer group way more than a paladin can offer.

Druid in tank group, probably is a good idea but doesn't make any significant difference. The contribution is still the same as a paladin's armour. Extra 200 healing versus extra mitigation. Depending on your philosphy. As a holy paladin, your tank first has to **not die** in order to heal it throw. It's never a case of insufficient HPS but rather tank dying too quickly. In most cases, the extra armour benefits them the most.
Last edited by Arquine on Mon May 12, 2008 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Pizbit » Mon May 12, 2008 4:38 am

If you have a holy pally in the tank group, you have too many holy paladins and really should diversify or face issues.

That or you're running a 10man.
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Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 4:42 am

Pizbit wrote:If you have a holy pally in the tank group, you have too many holy paladins and really should diversify or face issues.

That or you're running a 10man.


That's not true. We run between usually between 2-3 holy paladins, depending on weather the retribution dude shows up for raid or not. Given even if there is exactly one holy paladin, he should be in the tank group.

Also, we're 5/5 MH 9/9 BT , not 10 mans. Clearly it works for us, and most guilds I've been.

having said that,

http://armory.wow-europe.com/character- ... &n=Arquine

that's the spec I usually go for. Personally for me, I'd rather have 5/5 redoubt, 4/5 toughness and 3/3 imp RF for off tanking most mobs and all of Hyjals' trash in this spec.

But consider, it's not purely just the dicussion weather it's 3/3 improved concentration aura versus 5/5 improved devotion aura. Given you want to take the 3/3 imp concentration aura (my spec's route) then you need to invest more than mere 11 points into prot. Those are points you can spend on improved BOM which will boost raid dps etc.
Last edited by Arquine on Mon May 12, 2008 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mazater » Mon May 12, 2008 4:48 am

Arquine wrote:
First of all, as a prot paladin and prot warrior 1k armour is alot.

Secondly, spell **pushbacks** don't occur very often. 4/5 of MH bosses have no use of concentration aura, 8/9 of BT (except RoS p3) have no use of concencration aura. In places where there is a use of concentration aura, there's a better aura in place for it - for example fire for Illidan, dev aura for Bloodboil (ticks are physical).

First of all, in any tanking group there is a protection paladin nowadays.

The protection paladin will use devotion aura unless he or other tanks outgear the encounter, wich means that a holy paladin with imp. Devotion aura in the same groups gives, what, 200 more armor? Yay...

Secondly:
Nalorakk - silence
Gruul - silence
Moroes - DoT
Sex lord - Silence from some adds, spirit bolt volley etc.
Zul'jin - DoT's (silence too?)

Just a few examples where imp. consentration aura is actually useful, I'm sure there is more but that's just from the top of my head.
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Postby Pizbit » Mon May 12, 2008 4:51 am

Maybe we run overly caster heavy then.

Enough healers to create 2 groups, so a spot for 1 per group there, plus we usually have some mages, warlocks etc...

Don't forget the holy pally should get benefits from their group members, and they get none other than a small health boost from the warrior shout.
Where as they could be with a spriest, resto shaman, moonkin etc.
Thinking only of the tanks and neglecting healing isn't a great idea.

//ed// since you ninja edited I will too, the imp aura isn't always used in every fight, but most fights have some sort of AoE damage where the normal aura alone will benefit the group.
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Postby Arquine » Mon May 12, 2008 4:55 am

Mazater wrote:First of all, in any tanking group there is a protection paladin nowadays.

The protection paladin will use devotion aura unless he or other tanks outgear the encounter, wich means that a holy paladin with imp. Devotion aura in the same groups gives, what, 200 more armor? Yay...


not all, infact there's more guilds that don't run with a dedicated protladin compared to ones with. It works equally well with two prot warriors versus 1 of each. Given in the end of the day it's the skill of the player that matters most, and my guild has two very skilled prot warriors there's no reason to change this formula.

secondly as I mentioned above, improved concentration aura and improved devotion aura is not on the same tier. You're competing against improved blessing of might and other buffs for this talent.

Nalorakk - silence
Gruul - silence
Moroes - DoT
Sex lord - Silence from some adds, spirit bolt volley etc.
Zul'jin - DoT's (silence too?)


Yes, Gruul but I'm no longer at that "Gruul stage". Nalorakk, Moroes and Hex are all 10 mans - I don't think you need a spec "dedicated" to that and it's not game breaking. Zul'jin, not significant enough.
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Postby mazater » Mon May 12, 2008 5:00 am

Arquine wrote:Yes, Gruul but I'm no longer at that "Gruul stage". Nalorakk, Moroes and Hex are all 10 mans - I don't think you need a spec "dedicated" to that and it's not game breaking. Zul'jin, not significant enough.

This isn't about you, or me.

It's about general use for imp. consentration aura and devotion aura.
New guilds do need to look at their specs and see what's the most efficient way to raid, even 10mans.
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Postby Pizbit » Mon May 12, 2008 5:02 am

I'll toss this in, if you're AoE tanking at all, then there's no question about it, redoubt WILL provide superior mitigation.
When you're tanking you want to 1) stay alive 2) hold aggro. Redoubt provides the greatest benefit.

Sure your warriors may want some more armor but if you'll want to provide the smoothest possible journey to the boss. Have another pally who isn't doing any tanking pick it up if the raid leaders desire the MT has it.
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